Sherdog User Rules
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Sherdog.net Boxing FAQ
Written by BADrew, Tam Tam, Drastic_MaN, Michael DiSanto , ThirdPartyView
amhlilhaus, elgigante and USMC_Rugger. Big thanks to anyone else who contributed.
Edited & Compiled by Drastic_MaN.
Copyright Sherdog.net 2003.
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Q: How many boxing divisions are there? And what is the weight limit for each?
These are the
17 boxing weight divisions in boxing:
Strawweight/Minimumweight/Mini-flyweight: 105lb limit
Junior Flyweight: 108lbs
Flyweight: 112 lbs
Super Flyweight/Junior Bantamweight: 115lbs
Bantamweight: 118lbs
Super Bantamweight/Junior Featherweight: 122lbs
Featherweight: 126lbs
Super Featherweight/Junior Lightweight: 130lbs
Lightweight 135lbs
Super Lightweight/Junior Welterweight: 140lbs
Welterweight: 147lbs
Super Welterweight/Junior Middleweight: 154lbs
Middleweight: 160lbs
Super Middleweight: 168lbs
Light Heavyweight: 175lbs
Cruiserweight: 200bs (Was originally 190, but was brought up recently to 200)
Heavyweight: Unlimited
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Q: What is a southpaw?
A southpaw is a lefthanded fighter who fights with the right foot out and the left foot back using his right hand for the jab. It is simply a boxing stance for left handed fighters, although there are a few right handed fighters who fight like southpaws. Right handed fighters stand in an orthodox stance which is just a reversed southpaw stance.
The following fighters are southpaws:
Vassily Jirov, Corrie Sanders, Chris Byrd, Michael Moorer, Winky Wright, Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell.
The typical orthodox fighters are:
Kostya Tszyu, Lennox Lewis, David Tua and both Klitschko brothers (Vitali & Wladimir).
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Q: What are some of the more common punches you'll see in a fight?
Note: There are many other punches out there, such as the Bolo punch, Corkscrew punch and so forth.
Jab
A jab is a short straight punch which is always thrown with your forward hand, it is extremely effective for increasing the distance between you and your opponent, using it to set up punch combinations or just pound away at your opponents face. Here's an illustration of a jab.
Hook
A hook is a round bent arm punch, you simply hook your arm to produce a powerful blow, ussually the hook punch is used at attacking the body. Evander Holyfield has a great hook.
Uppercut
Most of you should know what an uppercut is. Ussually hits the opponent on the bottom of the jaw. The uppercut is usually thrown when fighting on the inside as it leaves you open and vulnerable. Lennox Lewis has nice uppercuts.
Straight right/left(depends on stance; Also known as a cross)
A straight right is used as an attack and is usually launched after setting up an opening with your jab.
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Q: What are these super heavies?
"Super" heavies (pretty much anyone over 6'3" and 230) are not out of the league of average sized heavies. These giants are not new to the fight game. Max Baer bludgeoned the giant Primo Carnera (who was untalented), Jack Dempsey destroyed several huge fighters such as Jess Williard, but ended up losing his Heavyweight championship to a smaller guy in Gene Tunney.
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Q: What is CroCop's professional boxing record?
Mirco Filipovic has never fought as a professional. He has however a record of 40-5 as an amateur but not as a pro.
Discuss CroCop's boxing record in this thread.
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Q: What's all this fuss about Max Kellerman?
Max appears on ESPN's night fights. Folks DOG him for being too "hyper", poor prognosticator skills and general "nuthugging" of Pernell Whitaker and Roy Jones Jr. As far as I'm concerned, the PASSION he shows for boxing and his knowledge of boxing history outweighs his spastic style on camera. He may not be a great analyst but his knowledge of the HISTORY of boxing and his ability to speak to the non-hardcore boxing fans are a plus.
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Q: Why the hell are there so many guys here discussing old fights?
We discuss fighters and fights of yesteryear because that's part of boxing's appeal, so either get over it, or read up and check out espn classics and watch the fights too and debate.
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Q: What is a nuthugger?
Generally this means that you are overrating a fighter. The most common types are "Klitschko nuthuggers" and "Tyson nuthuggers" and ofcoures the CroCop nuthuggers. The Klitschko's are both good fighters but are flawed in many ways. They both have thin skin above their eyes, and pourous defense. They both hit hard, and Wlad has some good boxing skills with a suspect chin, Vitali is less mobile than Wlad but seems to have a better chin. Vitali has NEVER beaten a top ten fighter as of 8/1/03. Wlad has beaten some decent competition. Let me clarify the difference between nuthugging and giving credit. If you think Tyson was a great heavyweight and great puncher, you are right. If you think he was unstoppable in his prime and would beat anyone, you are nuthugging. If you think the Klitschkos are capable heavyweights that could beat some top fighters of today then you arre correct. If you think they are the are the 2 kings of the heavyweight division you are nuthugging. Also, to a lesser extent, there are Jones nuthuggers. Now Jones is "the man", he is undoubtedly the best p4p fighter today. He is an all-time great, no one will argue that. If you think he's top ten all-time then bring some good backup and lets talk, if you think he could beat Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles, and Muhammad Ali on the same night...nuthugger alert.
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Q: How is boxing connected to MMA?
MMA and Boxing are different combat sports. MMA fighters can beat boxers but Boxing remains an essential part of MMA and if a world class boxer dedicated himself to MMA (taking a huge paycut in the process) they'd be world class in mma too in about a year and a half, maybe sooner.
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Q: Is classic boxing better than modern day boxing?
As good as classic boxing is, modern boxing can be more fun. You don't know who's going to win Mosley-De la Hoya II, you don't know if Manny Pacquiao is destined for greatness and you don't know how long Lennox Lewis will stay at the top.
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Q: Who was the first World Champion in Boxing?
That really depends what we are talking about. If we are talking about the first bareknuckle (London prize ring rules and other similar rules) champion (and also first English bareknuckle champion), it was James Figg. If we are talking about Marquis of Queensbury rules, it is John L. Sullivan, who won the belt against Dominick McCaffrey in 6 rounds on 8/29/1885 (Marquis of Queensbury rules and gloves were used in this fight). Please note that Sullivan was both the last American bareknuckle champion (beating Jake Kilrain on 7/8/1889 in his last defense before it was retired) and the first lineal World Heavyweight champion under Marquis of Queensbury rules.
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Q: How does the lineal World Championship work?
Basically, all lineal belts trace back to the founding champions of a weight class (John L. Sullivan at HW, Jack Root at LHW, etc.), and can be won two ways: 1) Beating the previous title holder (like James J. Corbett beating John L. Sullivan for the lineal HW Championship), 2) Unifying all the major alphabet soup belts (basically, WBA, WBC and IBF, or any combination thereof depending on what period of time we're looking at) after a previous champion retires or leaves the weight class for good or 3) winning the vacated single championship belt when the previous champion retired or left the weight class for good (examples of note are Max Schmeling winning the lineal HW belt on a foul against Jack Sharkey after Gene Tunney retired and Floyd Patterson winning the lineal HW belt by stopping Archie Moore after Rocky Marciano retired).
Note that the lineal heritage can only be analyzed retroactively a good number of years after a former champion did retire for good, as in the cases of Tunney and Marciano, since some champions who promise to retire don't. A case of such a situation is Jim Jeffries retiring in 1905, only to come back and lose on 7/4/10 to Jack Johnson. This means that Marvin Hart and Tommy Burns technically did not hold the lineal HW title, but only the vacated HW belt. However, Cyber Boxing Zone disagrees with this conclusion, as seen
here.
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Q: What the heck is 'Pound-for-pound'?
Basically, it is an overview ranking of all fighters from all the weight classes. Generally, rankings are based on a specific weight class, but this ranking uses a lot of conjecture to predict how a fighter would do at higher and lower weight classes against other all time greats (assuming they could make weight OK and so forth), as well as weighing in their actual career achievements to make a ranked hierarchy of who was the best from all weight classes, when stacked against one another. Many consider 'Sugar' Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong as the Pound-for-pound greatest boxer of all time.
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Q: Random trivia question goes here
Here's a few links to sites with lots of Boxing trivia that should have the answer to your question (and most likely much more):
Boxing Kingdom
The Boxing Wise numbers: facts, quotes and oddities (Pt. 1)
The Boxing Wise numbers: facts, quotes and oddities (Pt. 2)
Boxing Trivia and Fun Stories
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Q: What are these sanctioning bodies I hear about?
Unlike in MMA, where fighters are attached to various organizations, there are no set groups like that in Boxing. However there are many sanctioning bodies (tons of fly-by-night groups looking to make a buck), four of which are considered major, that all fighters are ranked by and aspire to be champions of. I am going to detail each of the four major sanctioning bodies briefly.
1.
World Boxing Association (WBA): Based out of Panama, the WBA is the oldest of the major sanctioning bodies having been around since 1962 (it can actually trace itself back to 1921 in the form of the National Boxing Association (NBA); It changed names in 1962). Its president, Gilberto Mendoza, has been a lightning rod for criticism due to fighters from Latin American nations such as Colombia and Venezuela with questionable opposition achieving high rankings. Past notable WBA champions have included Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Oscar De La Hoya and others too numerous to mention
2.
World Boxing Council (WBC): Established in 1963 and based out of Mexico City Mexico. Its president Jose Sulamian has been criticized heavily as well for suspected ranking fixing(especially Benefiting Don King fighters) but he has accomplished some major innovations in boxing. The WBC's medical convention which involves ring doctors from all over the world has helped in establishing new and improved safety guidlines for years. Another innovation that the WBC started was a pension system to help retired boxers long after their in ring days were done. A memorable(maybe not from their perspective) moment in WBC history came in 1992 when then WBC Heavyweight Champion Riddick Bowe threw the WBC belt in the garbage rather than defend it against Lennox Lewis.
3.
International Boxing Federation (IBF): Started back in 1983 by a man named Bob Lee and based out of New Jersey. Currently an organization that is being run by federal regualtoes due to rankings fixing and other bribery related charges. Its first recognizable champion was Larry Holmes .
4.
World Boxing Organization (WBO): - The newest of the four sanctioning bodies, it has been around since the late 80's but did not really begin to get recognized until the late 1990's when champions such as Naseem Hamed and Marco Antonio Barrera and Wladimir Klitschko helped give the organization some credibility.
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Q: How are fights won in Boxing?
Within the distance:
Knockout (KO): A fighter is unable to stand up completely as a referee tolls a ten count followed a ruled knockdown from a legitimate strike. If a referee waves off the fight before the ten count, it is generally considered a TKO and not a KO in most cases.
Technical Knockout (TKO): When a referee, corner or doctor waves off a fight as the fighter is unable to continue for one reason or another. If a fighter takes too much punishment but hasn't gone down (or isn't down), the referee can stop the bout. Similarly, if a fighter takes too much punishment, the corner can generally (though some states prohibit it) toss in the towel to signal a stoppage, or retire the fighter between rounds. A ring doctor can stop the fights due to medical issues (blood heading to the eyes, horrible swelling or abuse, etc.). Some jurisdictions, however, only allow the referee to make the final judgement or give both the ring doctor and referee such stopping power in medical situations. A fighter can be automatically TKOd if he is knocked down three times in a round (this depends on the state and sanctioning body rules). Also, if a fighter does not look clear headed but beat the KO ten count, the referee can wave off the fight as well.
Disqualification (DQ): If a fighter is deducted enough points or commits a serious enough foul, he/she may end up being DQd by the referee (at the referee's discretion more often than not; In some situations, such as opponent being unable to continue and it was deemed intentional, it can be mandatory based on sanctioning body and jurisdiction).
No contest (NC):- If, within a certain time frame in a fight (sometimes the whole fight; It depends on promotion, state, etc.), an accidental foul prevents the bout from continuing, and a certain amount of rounds (often 4) haven't passed, the fight will be ruled a 'No Contest'. In addition, in some states, if a fighter wins a fight yet fails a drug test (almost never if a loser fails a drug test), a result will be automatically reversed into a 'No Contest'.
At the distance:
Judges decision: Pretty much the same as MMA except that all rounds are based on a ten point must system (where one party at least must have 10 points awarded each, and the other 10 or lower) and points can be taken away for low blows, headbutts and other fouls (UFC does employ a 10 point must system). Rounds such as 9-9 can happen if there is a foul deduction on the winner of the round, knockdowns from both fighters, etc. Judges usually look for the fighter landing the cleaner shots and not always the guy throwing punches in bunches. Draws and decisions of all types are possible, just like in MMA.
Unanimous Decision (UD): A judgment where all 3 ringside judges have unanimously given a win to one participant in the final scorecards.
Split Decision (SD): A judgment where 2 ringside judges have given a win to one participant while the third judge gave the opponent the win in the final scorecards.
Majority Decision (MD): A judgment where 2 ringside judges have given a win to one participant while the third judge had a draw in the final scorecards.
Unanimous Draw: A judgment where all 3 ringside judges have unanimously scored the bout a draw.
Split Draw: A judgment where 2 ringside judges have given a win to both participants (one judge giving the win to one of the opponents, while the other judge scored in the others' favor) while the third judge had a draw in the final scorecards.
Majority Draw: A judgment where 2 ringside judges have given a draw while the third judge had one of the participants winning in the final scorecards.
Technical Decision: This is one way of winning a fight in boxing that is very different from MMA. Under the unified Championship rules which all four of the major sanctioning bodies use, if a fight is stopped due to a accidental headbutt before or during the fourth round, the fight is considered a technical draw. If this occurs after the fourth round then the fight will go to the scorecards and whomever is ahead at that time will win a technical decision.(credit for this part goes to straightjab.com)
It should be noted that a TD can end up having scorecards like the normal scoring results above.
No Decision (ND): Back in early 1900s, there was a good number of states that prohibited decisions to prevent heavy side betting from happening. A No Decision meant that a fight went the distance, but since there was no judge to render a decision, no one won (although newspapers back in the day gave their own decisions on who won a fight). This does not really happen today. Championships at that period therefore only changed hands on a TKO/KO.
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Q: What are the stations that fights are generally on?
So you want to watch the fights and are not sure where to turn in order to get your pugilistic satisfaction without having to always shell out for a 40 pay per view to do so. Below ill give you a few networks and their coverage level of boxing
HBO: They have been covering World Championship fights for over 20 years. The fights on this network are usually World title bouts or a showcase for those fighters on the cusp of a World Title Shot. Jim Lampley is their lead play by play man and is probably one of the two or three best boxing analysts in the world IMO. Fighters often appearing on HBO include Floyd Mayweather Jr., Oscar De La Hoya, The Klitschko brothers and Erik Morales
Showtime: They also have been in the fightgame for well over a decade. For many years they were the showcase network for all fighters involved with promoter Don King but they are involved a lot more with other promoters as well now. The production level of Showtime boxing to me is a notch below HBO but they still bring top level fights to their network. Fighters that have appeared on their network include Mike Tyson, Felix Trinidad, Kosta Tszyu and Zab Judah
ESPN/ESPN 2: The only network on basic cable in English that is still fairly involved with boxing. The main boxing series on this family of networks is called Friday Night Fights This series mainly showcase up and coming fighters or rough and tumble club brawlers that make for entertaining TV with the occasional minor world title clash thrown in. Teddy Atlas is one of my favorite color analysts in boxing as he brings a great deal of emotion and a trainers perspective to his analysis of each fight. There also is a 'smaller' program called Tuesday Night Fights that has recently returned. Fighters that have appeared on FNF include James Toney, Brian Villoria and many others.
Telefutua/Univision: The two Spanish networks have becomed heavily involved with series mainly featuring lightweights over the last few years. The only thing that i really know about fighters on that network is that Oscar De La Hoyas promotional company- Golden Boy Productions- has a lot of his guys showcased there.
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Q: Where can I read about the Marquis of Queensbury rules?
You can read about it
here.
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Q: Where can I see the generally accepted lineal title lineages?
You can read them
here.
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Q: Who won the ______ medal at the _______ Olympics?
You can either search
here (IBHOF listing that goes up to 2000 Olympics) or
here (official Olympic medalist database).
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Q: What are considered fouls in a Boxing fight?
This state statute for Alaska lists the various Boxing fouls that generally are considered warning/point deducting/DQable.
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Q: Who were/are the lineal champions in Boxing?
You can look them up
here, although it should be noted that at time of posting, Jermain Taylor beat Bernard Hopkins for the lineal Middleweight title, Zab Judah beat Cory Spinks for the lineal Welterweight title, Ricky Hatton beat Kostya Tszyu for the lineal Junior Welterweight title and Katsushige Kawashima won the lineal Junior Bantamweight title in 2004, but lost it back to Masamori Tokuyama in 2005.
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Q: How long does a Boxing fight generally go? How long are rounds?
In Pro Boxing, fights can last 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 rounds nowadays. Up until recently, there were also 15 rounders (longer, such as 20, 45, etc. if we go back even further, but those haven't been in effect for a long time). Each round in men's Boxing is 3 minutes, while in women's, it is 2 minutes (also, the maximum number of women's rounds is generally 10 rounds).
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Rankings
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All official recent rankings can be found at
www.boxing.de or
www.fightnews.com
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Rubio MHS's all time ratings at several different weight classes:
Heavyweight:
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Joe Frazier
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Jack Dempsey
11. Gene Tunney
12. Lennox Lewis
13. Sonny Liston
14. Mike Tyson
15. Floyd Patterson
16. Ezzard Charles
17. Ken Norton
18. Jersey Joe Walcott
19. Riddick Bowe
20. Michael Spinks
21. Sam Langford
22. Max Schmelling
23. Earnie Shavers
24. Max Baer
25. Archie Moore
26. Ingemar Johansson
27. Bob Fitzsimmons
28. Jim Braddock
29. Roy Jones
30. Harry Wills
Light Heavyweight:
Light Heavyweight:
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Michael Spinks
3. Archie Moore
4. Bob Foster
5. Gene Tunney
6. Roy Jones
7. Sam Langford
8. Billy Conn
9. Tommy Loughran
10. Harry Greb
Middleweight:
1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Bob Fitzsimmons
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Tony Zale
8. Roy Jones
9. Tiger Flowers
10. Jake LaMotta
Welterweights:
Middleweights:
1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Bob Fitzsimmons
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Tony Zale
8. Roy Jones
9. Jake LaMotta
10. Marcel Cerdan
Welterweights:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Mickey Walker
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Kid Gavilan
6. Emile Griffith
7. Tommy Hearns
8. Jose Napoles
9. Carmen Basilio
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Tommy Ryan
12. Oscar de la Hoya
13. Jack Britton
14. Joe Walcott
15. Roberto Duran (beat Leonard and Palomino)
16. Jimmy McClarnin
17. Barney Ross
18. Charley Burley
19. Ted Lewis
20. Wilfredo Benitez
21. Sam Langford (didn't fight much at welterweight, but when he did, he was knocking the fuck out of heavyweights and pound-for-pound contenders like Gans, who he fought at a catchweight)
22. Felix Trinidad
23. Billy Smith
24. Johnny Saxton
25. Benny Paret
26. Fritzie Zivic
27. Carlos Palomino
28. Aaron Pryor
29. Pipino Cuevas (11 defenses of the WBA title against nondescript competition before being knocked out by Hearns and Duran)
30. Freddie Cochrane
Lightweights:
1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Joe Gans
6. Barney Ross
7. Ike Williams
8. Alexis Aguello
9. Lou Ambers
10. Tony Canzoneri
Featherweights:
1. Willie Pep: I almost put him at number 2 because he wasn’t as good after the plane crash, but his prime was long enough and in it, he was the best. And even afterwards, he was still good, beating Sandy Saddler. Excellent defensive fighter.
2. Henry Armstrong: Unified the featherweight title, and held it for a couple years before moving up to win the World Welterweight Championship and the World Lightweight Championship. Could have won the World Middleweight Championship, but the decision went against him. Would probably outwork anyone on this list.
3. Sandy Saddler: Huge featherweight. Everyone’s heard the comparison between his height and reach with Rocky Marciano’s. He was the biggest puncher in the history of the division, was 3-1 against Pep and was very active.
4. Salvador Sanchez: Knocked out Azuma Nelson, Wilfredo Gomez and Danny Lopez. Could have been the best ever if he hadn’t died.
5. Esebio Pedroza: Won the WBA title in 1978 and defended it 19 times before losing it to Barry McGuidan in 1985. Fought all around the world and beat tough competition, including Royal Kobayashi, Ruben Oliveres and Rocky Lockridge.
6. Alexis Aguello: Had good wins against Legra, Oliveres and Kobayashi, but accomplished more at jr. lightweight.
7. Abe Attell: 18 title defenses. Champion for a decade. Beat a lot of tough featherweights like Kilbane, Tommy Sullivan and Battling Nelson, and a lot of lightweights, welterweights and middleweights. Loses a little bit of credibility because of his involvement in the Black Sox scandal.
8. Johnny Kilbane: Held the World Featherweight Championship for eleven years. Was very good in the ring, but he didn’t have terribly good power. Beat an aged Abe Attel for the title.
9. Eder Jofre: Former World Bantamweight Champion who retired and won the World Featherweight Championship. He could do everything in the ring and was extremely talented, but he didn’t do terribly much at featherweight besides winning the title. Was never knocked out.
10. Marco Antonio Barerra: Okay, I know I’m going to get shit for putting him in my top ten, but he beat Morales, Hamed, McKinney and arguably Junior Jones in their second encounter. I think he belongs here.
Bantamweights:
1. Eder Jofre
2. Carlos Zarate
3. Fighting Harada
4. George Dixon
5. Terry McGovern
6. Ruben Oliveres
7. Manuel Ortiz
8. Panama Al Brown
9. Wilfredo Gomez
10. Jeff Chandler
Flyweights:
1.
Jimmy Wilde: At 5' 2.5" and 74-109.5 lb. (yes, that's 74, not 94), Wilde was smaller than most flyweights, and a match between them at 105 might be interesting. He won the 98 lb. Championship of Britain at the age of 20 and he was 24 when he won the World Flyweight Championship, which he held until he was 31. He was one of the biggest punchers ever at flyweight, knocking out opponent after opponent. In 1915, at the age of 22, he had a 17th round KO loss to Tancy Lee, which he avenged. His other two losses were a 17th round TKO to World Bantamweight Champion Pete Herman and his title losing 7th round KO loss to Pancho Villa; his last professional bout. He beat the best of his day, including a decision win over future World Bantamweight Champion Joe Lynch.
2.
Pasquel Perez: Won an Olympic Gold Medal at Flyweight and started his pro career 51-0, with the Flyweight World Championship and nine successful defenses. Fought Yoshio Shirai three times without a loss.
3.
Miguel Canto: Holds the record for the most title defenses at 112, with 19. Defended the title around the world for four years.
4.
Pancho Villa: The greatest Filipino fighter of all time
and perhaps the greatest Asian fighter of all time. Had power in both hands, and used it to repeatedly beat much larger fighters in his homeland. Won the World Flyweight Championship from Jimmy Wilde. He died young, and despite his skills, it's hard to rate him because he only fought in America for three years. He had his wisdom teeth taken out before a fight with Jimmy McLarnin, which cost him a non-title decision loss. He died of blood poisoning ten days later, slightly before his 24th birthday.
5.
Fighting Harada: The only fighter to win both the World Flyweight Championship and the World Bantamweight Championship. He had only one title defense (unsuccessful), and accomplished more at bantamweight than flyweight.
6.
Fidel LaBarba: Won the World Flyweight Championship in 1927 and retired before he defended it. After coming out of retirement, he went up to featherweight and beat many top fighters there. He makes my top 10, but not my top 5.
7.
Pone Kingpetch: The first three time World Flyweight Champion. Won from Perez, defended against Perez, lost to Harada, won from Harada, lost to Ebihara, won from Ebihara, lost to Burruni. Had many huge names on his record, but lost a few.
8.
Benny Lynch: Scottish fighter who was at the top of the flyweight scene during the time that the title was splintered. He eventually unified the World Flyweight Championship in 1937 by beating Small Montana. Most of his losses were to larger fighters.
9.
Chang Jung-Koo: The most celebrated 108 pound fighter ever. He would have won a title at 112 if the judges hadn't screwed him out of the victory. He'd do well against almost anyone on this list.
10.
Ricardo Lopez: Without a doubt, the greatest Strawweight of all time. Never lost as an amateur or as a pro. Won the WBC World Strawweight Championship in 1990, unified it with the WBO World Strawweight Championship and held it for almost 9 years. Not only that, but he fought the class of the 105 pound division, including Hideyuki Ohashi, Lee Kyung Yun, Saman Sorjaturong, Rocky Lin and Rosendo Alvarez. The only blemish on his record was his draw in the first fight with Alvarez, which he avenged in a non-title bout in which Alvarez not only couldn’t make the strawweight or jr. flyweight limit, but the flyweight limit as well! He abandoned his Flyweight title in 1999 to go up to 108 lb., where he defeated Will Grigsby for the IBF Jr. Flyweight Championship. He retired, came out of retirement once, and defended his title one last time for one last payday. On a sad note, in his first bout with Alvarez, he only made $50,000, which was about the most he made in his career, despite being a legitimate pound-for-pound contender and in some eyes, pound-for-pound champion. On the same card, Christy Martin refused to fight because she was only offered $100,000. Sigh. He was an extremely talented boxer with the best ring generalship in boxing.
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Rubio MHS'sPound-for-Pound:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Ray Robinson
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Willie Pep
6. Jimmy Wilde
7. Roberto Duran
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Joe Louis
10. Muhammad Ali (I don't think a lightweight version of Ali beats Duran, Armstrong or Leonard, but the fighters he beat speak for themselves)
11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Bob Fitzsimmons
14. Carlos Monzon
15. Jack Dempsey
16. Archie Moore
17. Eder Jofre
18. Rocky Marciano
19. Michael Spinks
20. Marvin Hagler
21. Gene Tunney
22. Roy Jones, Jr.
23. Pernell Whitaker
24. Billy Conn
25. Mickey Walker
26. Salvador Sanchez
27. Emile Griffith
28. Carmen Basilio
29. Jake LaMotta
30. Tommy Hearns
31. Aaron Pryor
32. Alexis Aguello
33. Bob Foster
34. Fighting Harada
35. Tony Zale
36. Evander Holyfield
37. Sonny Liston
38. George Dixon
39. Kid Gavilan
40. Barney Ross
41. Tiger Flowers
42. Larry Holmes
43. Sandy Saddler
44. Pasquel Perez
45. Charley Burley
46. Joe Frazier
47. George Foreman
48. Carlos Zarate
49. Chang Jung Koo
50. Tony Canzoneri
Tam Tam's Pound-for-Pound::
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Jimmy Wilde
6. Harry Greb
7. Joe Louis
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Willie Pep
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Eder Jofre
12. Benny Leonard
13. Carlos Monzon
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Ray Leonard
16. Archie Moore
17. Bob Fitzsimmons
18. Marvin Hagler
19. Gene Tunney
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Salvador Sanchez
22. Fighting Harada
23. Jack Johnson
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Emile Griffith
26. Michael Spinks
27. Sandy Saddler
28. Aaron Pryor
29. Jack Dempsey
30. Bily Conn
31. Thomas Hearns
32. Mickey Walker
33. Rocky Marciano
34. Kid Gavilan
35. Luis Rodriguez
36. Larry Holmes
37. Bob Foster
38. Charley Burley
39. Jose Napoles
40. Stanley Ketchel
41. Gene Fullmer
42. Barney Ross
43. Jeff Fenech
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Wilfredo Gomez
46. Carmen Basilio
47. Wilfred Benitez
48. Carlos Zarate
49. Joe Gans
50. Pascual Perez
**Note** Tam did not rank any fighters currently active. So, notable by their possible abscence are: Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr, Oscar De La Hoya and any other fighter who has achieved great things but are currently fighting.
Michael DiSanto's Pound-for-Pound::
1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Sam Langford
5. Benny Leonard
6. Harry Greb
7. Joe Louis
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Mickey Walker
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Jimmy Wilde
12. Pernell Whitaker
13. Salvador Sanchez
14. Ezzard Charles *new*
15. Eder Jofre
16. Felix Trinidad
17. Willie Pepp
18. Sugar Ray Leonard
19. Aaron Pryor
20. Rocky Marciano
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Oscar de la Hoya (if he beats Mosley & Hopkins, he moves into top 20 - Marciano drops out)
23. Archie Moore
24. Stanley Ketchel
25. Billy Conn
26. Roberto Duran
27. Gene Tunney
28. Fighting Harada
29. Evander Holyfield
30. Alexis Arguello
31. Marvin Hagler
32. George Foreman
33. Bob Foster
34. Emile Griffith
35. Jack Dempsey
36. Carmen Basillio
37. Mike Tyson
38. Wilfred Benitez
39. Tommy Hearns
40. Ricardo Lopez
41. Jack Johnson
42. Julio Cesar Chavez
43. Joe Frazier
44. Tiger Flowers
45. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
47. Michael Moorer
48. Kid Gavilan
49. Wilfredo Gomez
50. Sonny Liston
Also, you can view the 2004 forum rankings per weight class
here (it was finished, compilation wise, in 2005).
Boxing Knowledge and History sites
