[Saith]

Originally Posted by krellik

Im out of the game a bit, but kesa gatame is the basic head and arm sidecontroll right?

You can see a few fight with Filho from btt in pride where he used that controll briefly in a few fights. I like that position, I guess some feel its a risky position for being bucked combined with poor offensive tools both striking wise and submission wise. Also not a position that it is usually a heavy emphassis on in bjj wich most mma fighters have as their submission base.... I guess the answers are something like that.. But I could be wrong.

The "leg-kimura" from that position is pretty nice...

Yeah, it's basically when you are turned toward their head and have their head overhooked and their arm isolated. If you're looking to finish a fight I can't think of a better position for setting up a submission (leg kimura, leg armlock).

As far as getting bucked off, I don't think so. I've been trapped in this position and used it and it's fairly stable. Then again I don't really know many counters yet so it could be relatively weak for all I know.

[vince89]

Its not as effective without the Gi tbh.

[krellik]

Originally Posted by vince89

Its not as effective without the Gi tbh.

I wouldnt know since I only have grappled in a gi like 2 times...

Its the greco roman bread and butter pin so it is certainly doable in no-gi of course...

[Saith]

I do see your point about striking though. I usually have more trouble going for submissions from mount, but with strikes it's probably much easier.

[krellik]

Originally Posted by Saith

Yeah, it's basically when you are turned toward their head and have their head overhooked and their arm isolated. If you're looking to finish a fight I can't think of a better position for setting up a submission (leg kimura, leg armlock).

As far as getting bucked off, I don't think so. I've been trapped in this position and used it and it's fairly stable. Then again I don't really know many counters yet so it could be relatively weak for all I know.

Some guys are great at roling you from that position and some will try and take your back, be on the lookout for the kneebar if they try to take your back, its a pretty sweet legbar bait from that position...

[Saith]

Originally Posted by krellik

Some guys are great at roling you from that position and some will try and take your back, be on the lookout for the kneebar if they try to take your back, its a pretty sweet legbar bait from that position...

I definitely need to look into it more, but if you keep your legs high it would be pretty difficult to take the back, and if you keep your opponent's head flat it would be difficult for them to get the leverage to roll you I'd think.

[krellik]

What type of grappling do you do and what type of caliber partners do you have? Just try and hold it against a few partners a few notches abover your own skill and you should experience both, propably being rolled more than having your back taken.

Usually when some take the back from that position they hook your leg, and if your knee bar savy they are basicly feeding you the kneebar...

[Saith]

Originally Posted by krellik

What type of grappling do you do and what type of caliber partners do you have? Just try and hold it against a few partners a few notches abover your own skill and you should experience both, propably being rolled more than having your back taken.

Usually when some take the back from that position they hook your leg, and if your knee bar savy they are basicly feeding you the kneebar...

I just do jits. I usually roll with other white belts, cause a lot of blue belts in my gym don't like rolling with less experienced guys plus I'm not skilled enough to pass their guard usually.

Also, can't kneebar as a white belt

[krellik]

Originally Posted by Saith

I just do jits. I usually roll with other white belts, cause a lot of blue belts in my gym don't like rolling with less experienced guys plus I'm not skilled enough to pass their guard usually.

Also, can't kneebar as a white belt

Ah that explains stuff, if you been no-gi you usually can do kneebars from the start...

Anyhow you should ask the bluebelts to remove the tampongs from their manginas, as a whitebelt it is imperative to get to roll with both students of your own level and higher level belts to get proper feel for stuff and for you to avoid going apeshit on fringe shit (the higher level dudes will force you to focus on the proper stuff such as defense and improving from bad position etc... Become friend with a bluebelt and ask to get to -start- from kesa with him, since you like kesa it is just as good that you get a realistic image of the position from the get go.

I fucking hate people that get all full of themselves just because they get some colour on their belt, its just as important for you to get to roll with bluebelts as it is for them to get to roll with purples and browns... In a good gym this is usually enforced that everybody rolls with everybody...

[Saith]

Yeah and there are good blues but one of them moved away and usually they are the older guys.

I think part of the problem is there's a big tournament or two coming up so the blues who compete are trying to improve their game for that.