[Stonebreaker]

Originally Posted by Standard

265+ is superheavyweight though

At 230 i would want to go up 5 - 10 lbs for a good HW weight.

I think LHW would be best for me in MMA, although i'm the same size as Randy Couture, Brandon Vera, Cro Cop and Brad Morris so HW is not out of the question for someone my size.

Couture dropped to LHW for a reason. Vera is fighting one, if not two, full weight classes over where he should be. Filipovic's recent woes probably aren't caused solely by being small for his weight class, but that certainly isn't helping. Hell, we've seen the man weigh in at 211... Lord knows what he's thinking. Can't comment on Brad.

My point is that the 220's are a dead zone in MMA for a reason: guys who walk around at that weight have a much easer time cutting water weight to make 205 than they do fighting guys who are cutting just to make the 265 mark. Fighting at 220-230 certainly isn't out of the question, but at the top of the game, at least, you don't find many fighters who can pull it off.

If it's going to be easier for you to start off fighting at HW (and if I recall correctly, that was the idea), then by all means, do so. I'm just saying that once you hit your UFC debut, you might see if your contract will allow you to fight at LHW.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by Stonebreaker

Couture dropped to LHW for a reason. Vera is fighting one, if not two, full weight classes over where he should be. Filiopovic's recent woes probably aren't caused solely by being small for his weight class, but that certainly isn't helping. Hell, we've seen the man weigh in at 211... Lord knows what he's thinking. Can't comment on Brad.

My point is that the 220's are a dead zone in MMA for a reason: guys who walk around at that weight have a much easer time cutting water weight to make 205 than they do fighting guys who are cutting just to make the 265 mark. Fighting at 220-230 certainly isn't out of the question, but at the top of the game, at least, you don't find many fighters who can pull it off.

If it's going to be easier for you to start off fighting at HW (and if I recall correctly, that was the idea), then by all means, do so. I'm just saying that once you hit your UFC debut, you might see if your contract will allow you to fight at LHW.

I think there's a diminished return after a certain point though, most of the examples I'm thinking about are from boxing but I think once you get over 225, things start to even out a bit more.

[Barut]

Is that guy a black albino? Fucking creepy man.

[Standard]

Randy also came back up to HW for a reason, the opponents are slower and he can out work HW's easier the LHW's, which would be 2 major reasons for anyone to be a small HW, the power is nearly the same and speed, technique and cardio can be the edge for them if they use it properly.

Vera can make LHW, but by no means can he make MW. i have a picture of me and Vera at a training seminar and he is basically the same size as me, thats about 50lbs to get to MW.

I would agree that 220's are a dead zone for most, about 230 - 240 is a good weight for a HW IMO. To say that you have to be a landmass to be a HW just isn't a hard and fast rule, yeah Randy dropped to LHW, but he is now the current HW champ, Cro-cop untill the UFC was the #2 HW in the world, hell even Fedor is usually well south of 240, thats some pretty good results for small HW's.

I'll worry about my UFC contract when the time comes, that should come right after i learn to fight.

[Stonebreaker]

Originally Posted by Sonny

I think there's a diminished return after a certain point though, most of the examples I'm thinking about are from boxing but I think once you get over 225, things start to even out a bit more.

I would have put it closer to the 230 mark, but yes, you're absolutely right. At or around 230, the cut to 205 gets to be pretty hard to do, it seems, and the number of guys with a huge size advantage on you is also somewhat smaller. For the moment, at least, the number of good fighters who also happen to be monsterously huge is fairly small, leaving the mid-range HW's viable. If MMA continues to grow and more really big, really talented fighters start entering the ranks, eventually the 60 pound range currently known as "heavyweight" is going to have to get cut into smaller bites.

That's probably a ways off, though.

[Stonebreaker]

Originally Posted by Standard

Randy also came back up to HW for a reason, the opponents are slower and he can out work HW's easier the LHW's, which would be 2 major reasons for anyone to be a small HW, the power is nearly the same and speed, technique and cardio can be the edge for them if they use it properly.

Hrrm. You remember when Couture said that if Ortiz managed to beat Liddell, he'd come out of retirement? I don't think I'm alone in reading that to mean that Couture knew he could take Ortiz, and knew that he couldn't take Liddell. That's a style matchup problem, really, but I think Couture's move back up to HW had a lot more to do with available top-level competition than it did with his actual weight.

Originally Posted by Standard

Vera can make LHW, but by no means can he make MW. i have a picture of me and Vera at a training seminar and he is basically the same size as me, thats about 50lbs to get to MW.

No? I haven't met the man, so obviously your first hand impressions are going to count for a lot here, but up until his last UFC appearance, Vera was tipping the scales pretty consistently at 225, and (no offense intended) that's a heck of a belly he's carrying. A ripped Vera, in my wild-ass-guesstimation, would probably walk around pretty close to 200. A water weight cut to 185 is hardly out of the question at that point, and probably not a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Standard

I would agree that 220's are a dead zone for most, about 230 - 240 is a good weight for a HW IMO. To say that you have to be a landmass to be a HW just isn't a hard and fast rule, yeah Randy dropped to LHW, but he is now the current HW champ, Cro-cop untill the UFC was the #2 HW in the world, hell even Fedor is usually well south of 240, thats some pretty good results for small HW's.

Nope. You don't need to be Tim Sylvia to fight at HW by any means. You do, however, need to be able to fight Tim Sylvia if you're going to fight at HW, and giving up two tons of weight and a mile of reach is a bad way to start doing that. Couture pulled it off. Arlovski and Mir managed it once, though they're closer in size. The short version is that you don't have to be enormous to fight at HW, just able to fight enormous opponents.

Originally Posted by Standard

I'll worry about my UFC contract when the time comes, that should come right after i learn to fight.

Looking forward to it, man. I'd tell you to keep us posted, but we're already in your log.

[Standard]

I agree with sonny. You get alot of guys that fight above where they can handle, giving up 20 lbs at HW is not that big of a deal, but being 20lbs overweight to match size is. The best statement is that you have to be able to fight the enormous opponents and not be them.

I guess we'll get to see this size debate pan out with Vera Vs, Sylvia, which will basically be a guy who could cut to LHW and a guy who cuts to HW.


I remember Vera saying he pigged out on ice cream before the match to add some weight or something stupid like that which is why he had more belly then usual. I still think 185 is way too much of a cut for him to make though. I would post the pic but i don't have access to facebook at work

[fat_wilhelm]

That picture fucking scares me.

He reminds me of the albino monk that chased me through France a few years back while I was trying to find the last remaining descendants of the great Lord Jeebus.

[bacon]

Deserted Island, you say? Only one beer?
Coors Light. It's bland and tasteless enough that I'd probably never get tired of it.

*writes name on bar stool*

I like it here....in the corner....by the bourbon.

[bacon]

I'll bet Carrot Top would look scary with a shaved head. He's pretty much albino....it's just hard to tell through all the freckles.