Serious Movie Discussion

[SpiderFan4life]

Burton's Batman had better character development?

Hahahaha now i have heard it all.

His Batman is about as deep as Shia Labeouf's character in the Transformers franchise.

Batman Begins was a complete character development movie...it shows who Bruce Wayne is,why he is who he is,why he chose to become Batman,the issues being Batman and Bruce Wayne at the same time,the damage being Batman does to his alter ego,the reason he can't have any long-term relationships with anyone but Alfred,etc,etc...

Burton's Batman was made to sell toys...it was a black-white movie with zero shades of gray.

Burton just about ruined everything about the mythology,The Joker being made by the Batman and vice versa (terribly lazy writing),Bruce Wayne acting like a dumb ass getting shot at ten times,ignoring that he's not like Clark Kent without the costume,making Batman a cold blooded killer,The Joker wanting to kill Batman and again vice versa...the awfully cheesy scenes with the 10 minute Prince cut,Joker being nothing more than Jack Nicholson being over-the-top Jack...

The ending is also horribly written and executed:The Bat-wing getting crushed by a single bullitt,the fact that a mass murderer wanted by the police was let to make a parade in the middle of the city and no one did nothing about it.

The only decent thing about the movie are the art direction and Elfman's immortal music,summing everything in the phrase ''all style and no substance''.

[flemmy]

Originally Posted by Dragonlordxxxxx

Bullitt and Flemmy, I have around 84 posts in this thread and could reach 100 posts in a few days if I spam. So here's my Top 25 or 50 list in case you guys still want one more entry.

yeah, ill let you in...i imagine you'll be sticking around these parts for a while anyway.


so now i have 27 lists, which isn't too bad if you ask me.

some regulars who didn't send lists are JSN, Feb 2007, Marsupial, and Jimmy Needles. i imagine you were all PMed and prefer not to make lists, which is cool. if you change your mind, you got probably a day or two before i finish.

[Bullitt68]

Originally Posted by magicman531

spency tracy also played hyde fairly humorously. his facial expressions were lollerskates

I find nothing comical about that performance. Complete intensity and menace is what I get out of it.

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

Burton's Batman had better character development?

Hahahaha now i have heard it all.

Your incredulity at my opinion is matched by mine at yours.

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

His Batman is about as deep as Shia Labeouf's character in the Transformers franchise.

Either you have no idea what you're talking about or are exaggerating to an unbelievable degree.

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

Batman Begins was a complete character development movie...it shows who Bruce Wayne is,why he is who he is,why he chose to become Batman,the issues being Batman and Bruce Wayne at the same time,the damage being Batman does to his alter ego,the reason he can't have any long-term relationships with anyone but Alfred,etc,etc...

Burton's Batman was made to sell toys...it was a black-white movie with zero shades of gray.

I'm leaning towards the no idea what you're talking about option.

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

Burton just about ruined everything about the mythology

But Batman being the result of years in the middle of nowhere, getting sent to prison and picking fights with inmates for practice and joining a ninja squad that orchestrated the fall of empires all through time is the preservation of the mythology

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

The Joker being made by the Batman and vice versa (terribly lazy writing)

Lazy? Okay, you really have no idea what you're talking about. How is creating a history between Bruce Wayne/Batman and the Joker that traces back to the seminal moment of the former's life lazy, especially when compared to Batman Begins, where they made the killer of his parents a random mugger?

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

Bruce Wayne acting like a dumb ass getting shot at ten times,ignoring that he's not like Clark Kent without the costume

When was the last time you even watched Batman? It's clearly been so long that you don't even remember that scene, otherwise you'd know there was nothing dumb about what the character did.

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

making Batman a cold blooded killer

Originally Posted by Bullitt68

It's too black-and-white to say Keaton's Batman is a psycho killer, as is evidenced by his willingness to save Jack Nicholson from falling into the vat of chemicals, but he definitely has more of an edge. He's not as wholesome as Bale's Batman. He isn't out for blood ready to kill someone every night nor does he go out knowing he will never fatally injure anyone. Being in the middle of those two extremes and not being opposed to killing like Bale's Batman creates a greater threat than just being apprehended by Batman and brought to the police. With Keaton's Batman, the criminals aren't just worrying about going to jail, they're actually fearing for their lives.

Comparing the opening set-ups for Batman and The Dark Knight, which were literally identical, it's a perfect example of where Batman succeeds and The Dark Knight fails. The set-up of Gotham being in a frenzy and the criminal element completely terrified of Batman doesn't work as well in The Dark Knight because Batman is really nothing more than a police officer wearing a bat costume rather than the dark blues. With Keaton's Batman, though, the cloud of fear he'd created over Gotham was apparent in his first appearance, the way he descends behind the unsuspecting criminals and then the way he's holding the mugger over the edge of the building. He looks like a killer, like someone you should be afraid of.

This most recent imagining of Batman just isn't as captivating to me and it's a combination of a different---and, IMO, worse---characterization and---again, IMO, lesser---performance from the actor playing him. I'm really hoping, as the franchise progresses, that Batman gets more of an edge to him and gets a lot meaner. . .and I don't just mean growling more

[SpiderFan4life]

''Lazy? Okay, you really have no idea what you're talking about. How is creating a history between Bruce Wayne/Batman and the Joker that traces back to the seminal moment of the former's life lazy, especially when compared to Batman Begins, where they made the killer of his parents a random mugger?''

Hahaha you look more clueless by the minute...it's painfully obvious you haven't read a single Batman comic book in your life.

[Bullitt68]

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

'Hahaha you look more clueless by the minute...it's painfully obvious you haven't read a single Batman comic book in your life.

I never said anything to the contrary. In fact, the multiple times we've discussed Batman in this thread, I've always said how I don't read comic books and I don't care whatsoever what any comic book storylines are.

I only care about Batman from a cinematic standpoint. As a filmmaker, whatever your source material is, you have the poetic license to do whatever you want in the interest of good cinema. I don't think Batman Begins is good cinema. I think it's very stupid and full of unintentional hilarity, and it is hurt severely by a weak characterization of Bruce Wayne/Batman and a disappointing performance by Bale as well as painfully stupid plot points. If they're true to a specific comic book or series of comic books, it makes no difference. The film Batman Begins is stupid to me.

The films Tim Burton created are miles and miles ahead of Batman Begins in every way imaginable, and while The Dark Knight lessened the gap considerably, IMO surpassing Batman while falling short of Batman Returns, when looking at Burton's two Batman films compared to Nolan's two Batman films, I think Burton's have more intriguing characterizations, chief among which is the combination of a great characterization of Bruce Wayne/Batman---which I've explained at length in this thread and don't feel the need to repeat yet again---and a great performance from Michael Keaton, and that's not saying anything about the films from a technical standpoint---which I've also explained at great length multiple times.

[flemmy]

Originally Posted by SpiderFan4life

Hahaha you look more clueless by the minute...it's painfully obvious you haven't read a single Batman comic book in your life.

you read comic books? Hahaha. dork.

[Bullitt68]

[sweede]

Flemmy... Can I send you a 25 list?

Is it alltime?

[gogoGomi]

Originally Posted by flemmy

you should send me your top 25 favorite movies (ordered). you've been posting in here as long as i can remember and i think you should be apart of this...


a couple other issues:

valkyrie and redjacko both have lists without specifying order...i'm gonna send them a pm asking to order it...if they don't get back to me should i A) assume the order they sent it in is correct, or B) disclude the lists (for now at least)??

order is important and could affect the outcome if they are in fact out of order...


also: still waiting on soda and yeahbee to fix their lists...i'll probably start tallying tomorrow so try and hurry up.

My shit wasnt in order either, wheres my notice?

Really? its like that ...?

[gogoGomi]

In order on the record

Raging Bull
True Romance
Pulp Fiction
The 13th Warrior
Barfly
Braveheart
Trainspotting
Jaws
Aliens
Unforgiven
The Breakfast Club
Iron Monkey
Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
Snatch
Red Dawn
Conan The Barbarian
The Terminator
Midnight Run
Reservoir Dogs
The Dark Knight
Raiders of the Lost Ark
The Abyss
Night of the Living Dead
The Matrix
Die Hard