[vince89]

Originally Posted by stu3ufc

women are the biggest manipulators lol

+1.

Lie, cheat and steal to get laid - and dont feel guilty doing so.

[Timbaland]

Originally Posted by Johner

Been doing this shit for about two years, and I've mashed together a little something from everyone.

Inner Game; Badboy, Hypnotica and TylerDurden are all great for Inner Game.

Appearance; I use a mix of Mystery and Cajun for looks, specifically suited for me. Cajun has great body language, and you can read about it on his blog Cajun's Spice .

Approach Methods; TylerDurden use a lot of physical methods, poking the girls, shoving them, being caveman. Cajun on the other hand has the aura that attracts females, so he usually use this enigmatic smile and approach right away. I use a bit of both, depending on the chicks.

Conversations; Since I'm European, I tend to have more success with Badboy's way. Basically it's a direct approach, and from a lot of exercises you've learned to talk about everything.



In my opinion, the most important thing, and the foundation of it all is great Inner Game.
Mystery says that with success comes great Inner Game. I agree there, but the road to success is way harder if you do not develop a good Inner Game base first.

Check out Cajun in this episode of Keys to the VIP

Keys to the VIP Faxe vs Cajun

Who are Inner Game, Hypnotica, TylerDurden, and Badboy?

[JohnnyBuddha]

I don't know much about the whole area, but what I do know seems pretty corny and contrived to me.

Generally, approaching dating or picking up girls as a "game" annoys me. I guess on a very basic level it seems dishonest and desperate to me. Though to be fair, again, I don't know much about these dudes and their theories--I'm mainly thinking of stuff like "get girls to notice you by wearing a dildo on your head" or all that bullshit about "throwing out 'negs'".

[JohnnyBuddha]

Originally Posted by StevieSparkZ

That's a good point GermanBJJ, but I feel that "PUA Techniques" and "PUA" in general are so misinterpreted. It won't totally change who you are, the inner game is always gonna be there. The majority of the guys who go to the PUA thing is what you'd expect. Neil Strauss said it was 70% of the computer nerds, 25 year old virgin types. I mean what else is there to help these guys?

People will give them advice like try to be yourself, but if you aren't gettin anywhere and are terrible with women. How does being yourself help you at all? So this is something that prevents them from sulking at home while their peers are out having fun. I mean afterall, it's proactive and it's a lot better than just sittin there and feeling sorry for yourself right?

I don't think MOST guys become manipulative as a result of being into the game. The game itself has been around way before Neil Strauss and David DeAngelo went mainstream. It just wasn't given a name. Men have always seeked out to seduce and pickup women. It's just now it has a name. You won't become manipulative if it's not congruent with who you are in the first place.

This and the post you quoted raise some good points too.

[Plutoburn]

Here is my 2 cents:

David De is my favorite of all the well-known ones. Because he is very balanced in terms of outer and inner game. Mystery's material definitely works, but only to the extend of getting girls in the sack and feels very "technique oriented", whereas David De's material, if you apply to it, makes you work toward transforming yourself to be a man that women naturally want.

Definitely changed my life. Biggest differences are my confidence level, attention to detail, and just overall increased level of enthusiasm and fun interacting with women. I had problem getting dates, now I am in a happy relationship with someone I probably had no shot at getting before.

And the whole manipulation thing, David De put it pretty well... "If you try to shower women with gifts and buy them dinner and pay for stuff, what do you think you are doing?" At least do something that works. And all these PUA things may get you the 1st or 2nd, even 3rd date, it only get your foot in the door so to speak, so personality at the end of the day still wins.

[StevieSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Plutoburn

Here is my 2 cents:

David De is my favorite of all the well-known ones. Because he is very balanced in terms of outer and inner game. Mystery's material definitely works, but only to the extend of getting girls in the sack and feels very "technique oriented", whereas David De's material, if you apply to it, makes you work toward transforming yourself to be a man that women naturally want.

Definitely changed my life. Biggest differences are my confidence level, attention to detail, and just overall increased level of enthusiasm and fun interacting with women. I had problem getting dates, now I am in a happy relationship with someone I probably had no shot at getting before.

And the whole manipulation thing, David De put it pretty well... "If you try to shower women with gifts and buy them dinner and pay for stuff, what do you think you are doing?" At least do something that works. And all these PUA things may get you the 1st or 2nd, even 3rd date, it only get your foot in the door so to speak, so personality at the end of the day still wins.

I would have to agree on David DeAngelo, a lot of his stuff I'd say is great for any level and very well suited for the beginner. It's easy to understand and the theories make a lot of sense. You watch a seminar clip of his and you can easily and realistically apply it to your situation. Check out this clip:

Rejection Anxiety and overcoming it with David DeAngelo
YouTube - David De Angelo


Establishing yourself with a woman by David DeAngelo
YouTube - David DeAngelo


As far as showering a woman with gifts, buying them meals, and showering them with attention all the time... yes that hurts you a lot more than it helps you because women hate guys who give up their status/power. You are basically saying "I don't think you'll like me for the real me and I don't know what to do so here I will just buy you things and give you flowers and hope you'll show interest back!"

It would make sense to show a woman interest and have her reciprocate but it doesn't work that way. Doing things like buying meals and giving them gifts shows YOU are interested and doesn't necessarily trigger attraction in HER.

[mofoj0e]

Originally Posted by Plutoburn

Here is my 2 cents:

David De is my favorite of all the well-known ones. Because he is very balanced in terms of outer and inner game. Mystery's material definitely works, but only to the extend of getting girls in the sack and feels very "technique oriented", whereas David De's material, if you apply to it, makes you work toward transforming yourself to be a man that women naturally want.

Definitely changed my life. Biggest differences are my confidence level, attention to detail, and just overall increased level of enthusiasm and fun interacting with women. I had problem getting dates, now I am in a happy relationship with someone I probably had no shot at getting before.

And the whole manipulation thing, David De put it pretty well... "If you try to shower women with gifts and buy them dinner and pay for stuff, what do you think you are doing?" At least do something that works. And all these PUA things may get you the 1st or 2nd, even 3rd date, it only get your foot in the door so to speak, so personality at the end of the day still wins.

QFT! DavidD surely changed my perspective for the better. I used his techniques and was very successful at dating which gave me tons of options. Now I am with an awesome girl using "The System" by doc love on her

[stu3ufc]

Originally Posted by mofoj0e

QFT! DavidD surely changed my perspective for the better. I used his techniques and was very successful at dating which gave me tons of options. Now I am with an awesome girl using "The System" by doc love on her

you know what i like about david d-- he's like the best pua for the average joe--- I really like his tips on relationships and stuff-- while mystrey is more about picking up LA HB 10's in clubs --- but both are good

[Mithra]

Originally Posted by stu3ufc

I think its worth it--- Id rather be with quality girls than butterfaces that will make you miserable


I was watching this mystery dvd and he says-- "Getting a 10 (a hot girl) is like getting a porsche, guys will treat you differently and so will other girls, your socail value will go up"

Maybe it is, but do you really care that much about your "social value"?

Originally Posted by GermanBJJ

I think PUAs walk a fine line. On one hand, learning how to behave and interact in tense, social situations (particularly with women) can be valuable for a good deal of people. I think, in this sense, it is no different than working for a large company that debriefs you before a big meeting or lunch with important clients or executive (don't say this, dress like this, be sure to mention this, etc.)

But my problem with some PUAs (not all) is that they game the system so much that you are basically no better than a fraud or scam artist. For example, how many of these PUAs would admit that they are using PUA techniques if a woman asked them to their face? Not many.

I think that being more social and being more fun is a great way to play the field in an attempt to find the person that is right for you. That's what dating is all about. However, I think developing a fake persona and system of tricks to get women into bed is *not* what dating is all about.

Pretty much spot on

[StevieSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Mithra

Maybe it is, but do you really care that much about your "social value"?

I would say EVERYONE cares about it to some degree and for most it is a huge deal.
There's a lot of people who say that it shouldn't matter what others think or say. I'd say those people are both right and wrong. For those who strongly believe 110% in it they are wrong. Those who are more fluid with the term are right because it DOES matter but it shouldn't all the time. Take me for example, I spend a fair amount of time on my clothes, hair, time in gym, and other things for overall appearance. Now I'm also willing to bet that a lot of guys on here or anywhere do the same. Now I can breakdown lots of psychological reasons as to why but at the end of the day it comes down to social value.

Am I vain? Am I materialistic? Shallow perhaps? You can say so of course, but I live in a society that rigidly promotes vanity day in and day out. Today, I went to safeway, walmart, 7-11, and even some broke dick convenience store called like "Ed's gas or something". (lol) You will always see magazines like Cosmopolitan, Glamour, Seventeen, Shape, and etc for women. For men, it's ubiquitous to see GQ, Maxim, Playboy, Esquire, Stuff, and etc. The people in the magazines always have social value because they LOOK good/desired/ideal, they have SOCIAL VALUE and we wanna be like/with them .

Now how many guys would pass up an opportunity to date a perfect 10 girl? Not many, I'd say in a way it helps validate ourselves. Knowing your social value is up there by having a real hot girlfriend. I think society uses these "props" (the magazines, models, celebrity images, etc) to control us. In this case we speak of perfect 10 girls and social value, we are taught this is something ideal and it's thrown in our faces all the time. Having a lot of game or even one good PUA routine can get you these girls. It's just that the reality of it is that having that kind of girl is more likely than not gonna give you headaches in the long run. It's a whole lot of maintenance, now this is where inner game comes into play BIG TIME. You have to really be a secure person and that's what inner game ultimately comes down to. Knowing yourself in a confident manner and being able to express yourself as such. (Esp to a girl of this calibur) Being a man that can put his foot down will prevent most of the headaches with this perfect being of feminine proportions and keep her because you are a man about it.

I've hit on social value, society and it's shallowness, inner game, and outer game. They all look to me like pieces of a puzzle and when you put them together they make the big picture. I have always looked at the game and learning the "PUA stuff" as making me a more confidence person inside and out. I also have started to hate the term "Pick Up Artist" because it's term and what it stands for (Pick Up Artist) allows anyone who doesn't really understand it to blow it totally out of proportion and just misconstrue what it really can do. It's never been about "manipulating" myself into a woman's pants. It's about self discovery to me. I will now have much higher social value simply because I am feelin good about myself from the inside. I've discovered that I can talk to a girl that looks that good and not be blown off. SUCCESS BREEDS CONFIDENCE! You can't project an image out to the world about yourself that is incongruent with how you feel about yourself on the inside. Body language, posture, and tone express all this and it's also inner game.

All of the outter game in the world won't save you. It's ALL about the inner game, with tons of it I have made AMAZING self discoveries. I've discovered that the really hot girl with all the makeup, hair, shoes, and sexy clothes is no different than I. She is even more insecure than I am in many ways! She is scared about commitment and the future like I am. I've also discovered that being with that uber hottie is a pain! She is annoying, demanding, and obnoxious! I will go back to the safeways and walmarts next week because I'm out of vagisil (jk) and I will see those magazines again and realize the girls on the Maxim covers are probably worse than my gf! Their heads probably so high up there that they suffer from altitude sickness and thus have more PMS attacks. Then the illusions will die out, the influence society and the media have over me will slowly whither away. I will then look at my gf differently and realize it's all about what's inside too, my perception of her is that she is a human being as well.

Thinking about it, social value is simply perception. Your perception is your reality, but I probably wouldn't have learned all this unless I went out there and used the abilities and potential the game has given me right? My social value at its core is that I have lived and learned and the value I have is my experience and NOTHING can replace that.

"You never know where you're going until you know where you've been".