[DrSatanDracula]

As noted in the thread title, this thread includes SPOILERS OF ALL SHAPES AND VARIETIES.

GTA 4 is the type of game which, while very good, has been brought to the leve of apotheosis by fan-boys that utterly reject objectivity in order to herald this as the second coming of Jesus Christ. This game is not the best game ever made. It is not even close.

Let's begin, shall we?

The biggest gripe I have with this game, as I noted elsewhere, is that it is A MAJOR AND EXTREME DOWNGRADE ON SO MANY LEVELS. The game has annihilated so much from the series. Considering this game - and the games before it - made Rockstar billions, the only excuse that can be made is that they are too lazy to code shit that they have before. It is intolerable and GREATLY IMPACTS THE QUALITY OF THE GAME and its replay.

The following things are completely absent:

Weapons: Mini-gun, flame thrower, homing rocket launcher, tank, harrier, rhino water tank, brass knucks, sword, dildo, vibrator, flowers, chain saw.

Side-missions: Pimping, property buying, money-property buying, trucking, gang wars, rampages, home invasions, and license tests.

Vehicles: Planes, bicycles, parachutes, rocket pack.

Celebrities: Excluding Bas Rutten and Jim Norton, there are no celebrities in game.

Character customization: A paltry amount of clothes, no barbershops, no tattoos, no training, no buffing up/getting fat, no improving skills, no getting tattoos. You can buy some clothes. That's it.

No connection to prior games: The connections are minute at best. At best. There is Lazlow. They mention Los Venturas and Vice City. That's it.

Soundtrack: The soundtrack itself is very "eh" and there are no uploadable MP3s. They should have also had a Sinatra-style radio channel. This is Faux-NYC. Why can't I listen to Old Blue Eyes?

The game does some things awesomely. No one can say the game isn't beautiful, the story not excellent (in the mainline - more on this later), the voice actors great, and the city beautifully done. The phone mechanic is also great. As is the taxing and friends that do things for you and you can have "dates" with.

On to the story: Okay. The story is very good. Excellent, in fact, in parts. These parts are the main missions. Some parts of the story, however, are crap. The game starts off very slow and there are points in the game where the storyline missions are just stupid. The McReary Brothers and Brucie are the best characters and storylines outside of the "Niko is getting revenge and killing Russians and other people who fuck him over" main storyline - Dwayne/Playboy X, Manny, and Elizabeta are stupid. Paper and Frankie McReary are good. The Italian mobsters are boring and stupid. Little Jacob is cool. The ending is good. I've only done the Revenge ending, but I hear that you have another option. I might go back and do that in a bit, but probably wait a bit.

I'd also like to commend the game for doing awesome with the cars and driving EXCLUDING motorcycles. Motorcycles are fucking unworkable - everything makes one fall off them and hurt oneself. That being said, the models and damage, handling, et cetera, are great. The game really outdid it self there. Definitely.

The city is also very impressive. Broker and Dukes were rushed in some parts and way too small (they miss out on cool areas) and the whole thing could have been larger (let's cut out some stupid Alderney crap for more LC). But the city is really well done overall and just cool. I'd have liked to have been able to go into more places, interact with more people, et cetera, but it was cool. But not being able to base jump? Un fucking believable!

The combat is definitely better in this game. They improved it a lot. It isn't brilliant. It isn't Drake's Fortune or ****l Gear Solid 4 or any game where combat is key. But it is much better than previously. The AI on the enemies could be better. They don't really do anything. But the combat is a lot better than the bullshit of prior GTA games. But yeah...the combat is not EXCEPTIONAL. In fact, I say they should have significantly improved it. I'd have liked to have faced intelligent enemies. I did not.

Multiplayer is also awesome. This really improves the experience. But the Playstation 3 interface for online calibration of shit and stuff is sub-optimal. It's okay, it's workable, but it is a bit off.

This game was good. It wasn't too long for the most part - the Italian missions not with standing - and it had some good parts. It didn't have as many "holy shit awesome!" moments in terms of mission gameplay as GTA SA, but it did have solid missions throughout. Also not having to lose one's shit if one goes to the hospital is good, as was the new police system. I like this game, don't get me wrong, but it is just........not the game that everyone makes it out to be.

In summary:

Pros: Great storyline, voice acting, graphics, gameplay improvements, multiplayer.

Cons: No celebrities, most of the extra content has been cut or altered badly (not being able to choose which race you want to do?! What the fuck?!), several parts of the story/missions aren't good at all, bad motorcycles and no planes, lack of GTA humour and feel, some lacking of truly climatic and epic moments, misc. other gripes mentioned above.

Overall score: On an objective basis of 0-10, with 0 being absolute garbage, 10 being God II, this game is a 7.5. I would have given it an 8, but there are too many flaws overall to give it that. I was going to give it an 8 for a long time until I got to the end and realized how much was lacking. This game is very good and enjoyable, but it is not God's gift to gamers.

Also, I do not consider the extra content being promised as part of this game. It's only for X-Box and I find it cheap and bullshit to count expansion material before it is expanded.

GTA 4: Whatever better fix these problems and live up to the hype, that's all I am saying. Of course, the completely bullshit fanboy reviews in magazines/websites that mention none of its flaws will probably fellate Rockstar even if they don't.

This is the problem: Big time games will never be objectively reviewed. For big time games, there really should be a mandated two week cool down period for objectivity on the part of the people who review it after their initial review. But that is a whole other thing...

[keam02]

If you need celebrities to make a game good, thats pretty sad. The lack of celebrities lets the characters stand on their own more rather than having Samuel L. Jackson be a cop. That just doesn't let the characters stand alone and actually hinders character development. The motorcycles aren't bad, planes wouldn't work in NYC (September, 11th, no way they would have them), and the humor is there but not as over the top. The soundtrack is weak, I agree, as is the lack of character customization. I'm glad the skills (especially driving and shooting) are gone. There's a learning curve to driving and the skill level is in the hands of the player holding the controller and not something you just build up by playing a ton. Also, I never was a big fan of property buying so it didn't bother me, but it wouldn't really fit with the story. Niko was concerned with finding Florian and then that other guy Darko, not living a life of women and cars and property. Also, weapons, no need to have all those extras, they aren't practical, though they are kinda fun.

So what you see as a huge downgrade I see as something that may add just a bit of fun but its a game maker or breaker like you think. So I'm satisfied. Its no 10, I don't get why people jumped on the hype wagon and claim its the best ever, because its not. That being said, its an extremely immersive, polished, and fun. So I give it a good 9. I finished it, that says enough that I didn't get bored for the 35 hours it took me to beat the main story and do a bunch of other stuff. I also didn't rush, which says that the extras were enough to make me forget about the main mission for hours at a time.

[WorldofWarcraft]

I don't get why IGN gave it a 10, mentioning something about innovation. It's the same GTA game with better graphics and a different storyline.

[rockit]

Good review man,spoilers don't really bother me that much.I also plan on getting this game next month.

[YeahBee]

It didn't have as many "holy shit awesome!" moments in terms of mission gameplay as GTA SA

The bank heist is the biggest WTF moment in GTA history, so frekkin great

CLose second is the riots in GTA SA

I ma with you on the radio

fuck Ol Blue Eyes where is the classic NYC punk scene? folk music from Greenich Village?

Heck even the disco from studio 57

Car customization and body mods yeah I miss those

Huge plus is the taxis, would have like busses aswell

It is hard to make out the main story lines

Some thought the intro was slow I liked the russina part alot (but I am not thru it yet)

Acctually I think they could have turned up the difficulty, maybe have a Oblivion type difficulty settings that you could adjust?

[nathan22]

A poor game, who piad all the reviewers that's what i'm asking? San Andreas everyday of the week please.

[GSP Brantford]

Halo3 is the best. Call of duty sux. GTA4 is awesome. and there are some celebrities you just have to know how to find them. Ive even heard that ice man chuck liddell is in it an also cyphasounds of shade 45 is in it as well. I wish the jetpack and bicycles were back but it is the best game of the year, and playstation 3 online is shitty anyway, do yourself a favour and get xbox live.

[Forbiden1]

Your review comes off with the sole intent to disclaim the 10's it received at other publications and hard to see you being objective with the review, and comparing it to the other GTA's of the past.

With that said you make some valid points and some I personally find silly.

Weapons- Weapons make a huge impact on this type of game, but ultimately it is not a FPS, to expect the type of arsenal that was found in a FPS or the past GTA's would be giving you more of the same. Lets examine an use Vice City as a good example. The m16 in the game and the m60 were both in it. The only difference between the two weapons was the size of the magazine thats it. Hence no real need to hog up space on the disc when the weapons are really interchangeable and the differences are so slim. I think from a creative standpoint this game didn't glorify violence in the past like it did, and put a more grittier art direction, and putting alot more emphasis on the story an inner struggle of the character, and to fully accomplish that goal, they chose to eliminate the craziness of the old games and put more realistic weapons for that setting. This game had the knife which in my opinion trumps a weapon like a brass knuckle or even the bat (which i never used). In some ways from my personal experience the rocket launcher does react to heat but is not a homing launcher in the type that you were probably expecting.

Side Missions- I don't know how far of the game you experienced but there are quite alot of side missions. When you see a green icon that says friend go up to it it will start a cut scene with side missions. None like the degree of buying property or pimping but nonetheless a side mission. Also I thought the property buying was lame in the past so I never cared much for that feature, it added pointless side quests and extra cash that ultimately was not needed as one can easily purchase any weapon they wanted. But if you were expecting/wanting/needing that in a game I recommend you get into MMO's but not Warcraft as property buying is not a part of that game.

Celebrities- Like previous poster said, if you "NEED" celebrities to make or break a game, I think you need to reconsider what you consider good games. ****l Gear Solid didn't use any celebrities and the game was damn near perfect from a voice acting point of view. A game with this budget should not, or need to spend more of the money hiring actors to play the voice for their pricey demand. I will submit the fact that having Ray Liota in Vice City was awesome, but honestly if it was anybody else or if they kept with the tradition of making the main character silent, I don't think anyone would of cared.

Character Customization- Rockstar themselves said when the game was in development that they were going to do away with those features. An for the sake of creative direction I'm glad they did. Niko Bellic is the character they created and they created him with the purpose of telling the story they wanted to tell. Not the story you decide, or create. Honestly in San Andreas it was quite of a nuisance having to watch what to eat, and work out, again it takes away from the story in my opinion, and I think the developers agree as well. As for skills, that was one of the things I hated the most about San Andreas, If the player is good, let him be good, don't attempt to limit his progress by making it hard to aim an fire. For San Andreas I could see why they did this as the character was from the streets, but Niko has a military background, he knows how to handle a weapon.

No Connection to other games? You honestly Need that? There are tons of references to Vice City and San Andreas in this game. What more did you want or expect? You wanted CJ to show up or Tommy Vercetti to show up and give you missions?

Or not having the corky sense of humour in old GTA games? Some of the commercials are crude and hilarious. I think they out did themselves in this department.

Soundtrack Fucking sucked. Hated every station only liked about 6 songs in total.

Motorcycle Driving - I don't think you should fault the developers as I can handle a bike very well, and the missions I usually had to use one were accomplished on the first try. My only complaint would be the lack of Crotch Rockets, I cant seem to find them as they are some of my favorite vehicles to use. Maybe your driving isn't that good, or you havent mastered the physics of it.

I don't see how you can say you think some parts of the city were rushed, I'd like a clarification on that, especially in terms of nothingness and bitmap errors if you can. The city is massive and has huge amount of detail in almost all the places I've visited (And Ive completed the game with about 75% completion).

Again with the combat, the combat was just what it was supposed to be, a GTA game. With that said I think they almost perfected the shooting for what they needed. The game was almost too easy for me coming from a heavy FPS background, missions like Snow Storm I completed on the first try. Intelligent enemies or relentless enemies, try getting 5 stars or 6 stars and see how hard the police get. It is honestly real hard to survive long with 6 stars unless your camping near a soda machine. (Thats the only way I can last long atleast)

Multiplayer is PHENOMENAL IF! You can get a game with the settings you want and host. I personally don't like the multi player interface and setup because it doesn't put alot of control in the player when making the game set up. If you've done party mode you know what i mean on xbox. But this game is just exploring the multi player aspects and in time Rockstar will perfect it. It was their first try.

One cannot say the game is short because even when you run through only main missions its going to take you almost 25+hours to beat, and even then there is so much more to do and distraction. I have friends who are surprised I beat it with such a high % complete. Just because you were exceptionally good at it, doesn't the game is short. Fable is a short game, Me t a l Gear Solid 3 is a short game. I would not say this is a short game, just a game you raped and ran through.

The game is not perfect, and no game is perfect, that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a 10 rating. For most magazine when they give a game a 10 it means its a must by. I agree any person who loves games should atleast give this game a try and see what you like and don't like.

With that said I would give the game a solid 9. It falls short in multiplayer but I didn't buy this game for multi player, and the soundtrack I hated. The story is what drives it, the new revamped physics and rag doll effects add new features and possibilities for fun an rampages.

Replay Value I think will be decent as the game offers choices and I personally want to see how it alters the course of the game.

This game is a must have for gamers especially casual gamers as this game offers a great story, with deep overtones, a game that is really multiple games in one, but never a master in one area, that appeals to all types of gamers.

[YeahBee]

Motorcycle Driving - I don't think you should fault the developers as I can handle a bike very well, and the missions I usually had to use one were accomplished on the first try. My only complaint would be the lack of Crotch Rockets, I cant seem to find them as they are some of my favorite vehicles to use. Maybe your driving isn't that good, or you havent mastered the physics of it.

there is one at the airport

[Forbiden1]

I know about that one that faces that huge ramp.

I went hunting for it the other day and pulled out a gun by accident causing 4 stars instantly was funny.

One thing I notice as in all GTA games depending on the car you have the cars you will see on the road will be similar to the one your driving hence why I need to get one in my garage so I can always have a bike at my disposal.