Loss of values?

MMA-STER · 07-19-2006, 11:58 PM

It's well known that the culture among martial artists changed drastically with the advent of MMA, and in many cases for the better - we have more effective techniques, and training methods, but in another way for the worse.

Now it is not my intention to make a controversial statement, and get into a flaming war. I want to discuss the fact that there is a culture among martial arts enthusiasts that is lacking in respect - not only for individuals, but for women.

It is a frequent occurance for me to read a post (and admittedly laugh from time to time) in which people talk about (even praise in many cases) infidelity, senseless violence, and the like.

Many fighters that I have come across - either in training or socially - also have adopted this mentality of being the "big macho bastard" who doesn't respect women, or has absolutely no respect for other martial arts.

I have been involved in martial arts for a large part of my life, and have experienced both TMA (Traditional Martial Arts) training and New-school MMA. Admitedlly, I train in MMA these days, because it is more effective, but I think that for many people, the sense of respect developed through training has been replaced with pride and arrogance.

I know that there have always been arrogant martial artists who don't live up to the values that are so highly prized by tradition, and I also know that there are many new-school fighters who are respectful.

I just think that it's clear the values associated with martial arts have changed significantly, but not necessarily for the better in all ways.

What are your thoughts?

Joey M. · 07-20-2006, 02:17 AM

The values associated with martial arts were instantly comprimised the moment it became a business and available to the general public.

Hammer Time · 07-20-2006, 03:01 AM

you could of made u point in a lot less words. I agree with u though u definately have a point about respect and class being diminished in modern mma. however society as a whole is this way we've shifted into a secular society. in martial arts us north americans cud take a lesson form the japanese and take sum time for tradition and respect. (ufc vs shooto class is somewhat lacking in northamerica) no longer is it about martial arts, honor, courage and competition. its all about entrance music, trash talk, flexing our muscles and beating people into the "living death".

MMA-STER · 07-20-2006, 05:28 AM

I thinks you both make good points, and I apologize if the first post was long winded.

It seems that the commercialisation of the art has robbed it of it's value system. So be it I guess. It's pretty plain and simple when you look at it like that. I guess the point at hand for me is whether this loss of values is outweighed by the increased efficacy of the techniques.

When I have a son, I will ensure he is trained to use the best techniques available to him, but I also want to know that he will be raised to show respect to others.

InternetHero · 07-20-2006, 05:49 AM

I respect myself.

That counts as a value right?

childrenofbodom · 07-20-2006, 10:27 AM

japan is one of the most secular nations in the world,

MMA-STER · 07-20-2006, 06:29 PM

Some would argue that to truly respect yourself, you must also respect others.

@childrenofbodom - Japan is considered to be a nation that is strongly attuned to it spiritual roots and history, which is offset by their technological advancement. They are a good example of how a culture can move forward developmentally, without losing touch with their value system.

I suppose that essentially, the martial arts community is losing it's value system - so be it. But is it worth it? Or does it even matter?

SKD · 07-20-2006, 07:17 PM

I agree somewhat.

A lot of people who are into MMA are retards.

And the funny thing is the majority of them don't train, or are newbies. And they still have the audacity to poke fun at traditional martial arts.

What I've found is that the people who fight, or are of a good standard at a ring based sport (MMA for example), either respect the traditional arts for what they are or at the very least don't make stupid comments about them.

It is usually the newbies who make such statements like "TKD SUCKS!!!!! MMA4LYFE" etc. etc. Empty vessels make the most noise, that statement fits here.

But MMA doesn't have as much "soul" as a lot of TMAs. THat being, it is primarily about fighting and being effective, than about culture, tradition and respect for seniors and so forth. There's nothing wrong with that, but it attracts different types of people, some less mature/savoury than others.

Legend Killer · 07-20-2006, 08:23 PM

I do believe Japan has more of a deeper tradition but that's not to say America is without its. I believe all the trash talkers are new to the sport or simply dont know what they are talking about. They eithrr grow out of it (like me) or just drift off on to other endeavors.

dreadedothrside · 07-20-2006, 10:15 PM

I've seen the attitude you describe more among fans than people who train MMA (although I know that it occurs among fighters too.).

However, I also encountered that attitude a lot when I was studying Karate, and to a much greater degree. I'm not saying TMAs are worse in general, just that in any martial art you can get a bunch of macho jerks who don't feel they need to respect anyone.