[SmileyPSU]

Originally Posted by jahred

agreed. i got the impression that you felt they didn't deserve help or something, just from the context or whatnot i guess.

Exactly the impression I got. My apologies if I was rude because I misunderstood, Bladder. Sorry to hear about your backstory, that sounds pretty awful.

[Bladderbuster]

Originally Posted by SmileyPSU

Exactly the impression I got. My apologies if I was rude because I misunderstood, Bladder. Sorry to hear about your backstory, that sounds pretty awful.

That's cool. I probably could have spent a few seconds more and made my opinion more clear. I don't have an issue whith people seeking help or treatment. But I have a big issue (and clearly some residual anger) with the choices some people make that put them in the position of needing help and/or treatment.

[Dane Bramage]

Originally Posted by Bladderbuster

Addicts are weak. Weak people are full of excuses for why they are weak and cannot control their cravings. Therefore, weak people need support groups and meetings to keep themselves in line, because they are too weak to do it on their own.

I do not consider someone an addict if they are in control of their substance use, or personal abstinence.

Everyone is weak at some point.

[Happy Boy]

Originally Posted by bobbylight

My story is below, if you don't want to read it, skip to the bold Question

I was at one point a huge pot smoker. An all day every day type of person. I would never miss a day. I ended up messing up college a bit, and decided I wanted to quit. I would stop for maybe 3 months, smoke once again, then within a few weeks be back to smoking all day every day again. And any time I wasn't smoking weed, my drinking would pick up quite a bit. And I only drank to get drunk. I wouldn't wake up and crave alcohol, but I never drank just socially, always to get fucked up, and probably 5 nights a week a little less than a year ago.

I was also biiig into hallucinogens and the like, so I would do mushrooms and e and a pretty regular basis, as well as acid on an occasion or two. Anyway, I would try to limit my drinking or smoking, and I couldn't. I could never only drink a few drinks, or smoke every once in a while. For me, it was all or nothing. And that, to me at least, seems to mean that I'm an addict.

Well anyway, I have been sober since the beginning of January. Not even a drink or hit here or there. I think my body has actually started to reject alcohol, and the taste of it, because whenever I take a sip of something that I used to "like" when I was drinking, it tastes disgusting to me. To the point that one time I wanted to drink a beer, got two sips in, and thought "I wish this was a mountain dew" and didn't drink any more of it.


QUESTION

But anyway, I went to an AA meeting with my friend because he had to go for rehab (which he is in because he got arrested). I went once before, with a different friend, for the exact same reason (right when I started not doing drugs in january). Anyway the resounding theme of everyone that talked (other than I thought they were completely nuts) was that you NEEEEED AA to be sober. My friend actually told his rehab counselor about me, and saying I don't go to meetings, and I'm sober, and the guy said "he is lying to you and still using."

Some people just don't get it I guess. If I can't control myself when I drink or do drugs am I an addict? My answer is yes. But if I can stop by myself, without going to meetings, does that mean I'm not an addict? I wanted to ask this at AA but I didn't want anyone to question their own recovery. If it works for them, fine. But I just don't understand why they make it seem like ITS THE ONLY WAY!

All the people that talked seemed to have lives, for the most part at least, that completely sucked, and my life is going pretty great actually. So maybe that is it. But what do you guys think?

I guess I would like to hear most from people that are recovering addicts or alcoholics that stopped with AA or without it.

I quit all manner of vices on my own on the same day. AA is a way, not the way.

Good to see you on the forums Bob, are you serious with that sig though? I really thought we had established some things between us and that we had something of an unsaid understanding, you parading that around to people is a bit of an insult.

[DeathNTaxes]

Originally Posted by Bladderbuster

Maybe if I provide a little background my statement will be better understood, at least from my point of view.

Firstly, to all of those who directly responded to my comment - you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't wish you any harm for disagreeing with me.

Secondly, I spent six year of my childhood in and out of foster homes because I have an addict for a mother. Oh, she attended meeting, had sponsors, did time in jail, and spent plenty of time on the street. I didn't see my mother once between the ages of 12-16. When I was 16 I went to live with her for the last time. She was clean and sober this time. She was going to A.A. and working a full time job. Then her boyfriend left her. In two weeks time she was drinking a handle of vodka a day and we were being evicted. Why? Because she was weak, and didn't give two shits about anyone but herself. I went back to a foster home, and she became homeless and a prostitute. Luckily, I ended up in a home with some people who actually gave a shit. I managed to graduate high school, and joined the army.

My mother is supposedly clean again, and she tries to contact me from time to time. But I spent my whole child hood dealing with her weakness, lies, and complete junkie bullshit. Now, I don't have the time or energy to deal with hers or any other addicts lies, bullshit or excuses.


Sorry, if this is way off subject from the original thread topic.

Bud that's some rough shit.

I hear you on that. But seriously that's not AA's fault that's your mom's issues. Changing human behaviors is THE MOST DIFFICULT thing to do PERIOD. Some people are able to do so more easily but hands down changing your behavior is the most difficult thing for people to do. Addicts relapse constantly because changing their behavior is such a struggle. It's not weak to seek help or try to get better weakness is giving up or never trying to make a change. That's what AA is for and support groups are for is a place where people can go for support to fight their addictions no matter what, no matter how many times they try and fail, the support is there for them to get better.

[corwin137]

Originally Posted by bobbylight

My story is below, if you don't want to read it, skip to the bold Question

Edited for brevity...


QUESTION
...

... But if I can stop by myself, without going to meetings, does that mean I'm not an addict? I wanted to ask this at AA but I didn't want anyone to question their own recovery. If it works for them, fine. But I just don't understand why they make it seem like ITS THE ONLY WAY!

Both a treatment professional, and a recovering guy for a long time, in answer to your specific request.

As for the questions: I'm assuming I've highlighted 'em above. The ability to stop doesn't make someone a non-addict. The disease is not diagnosed by quantity or frequency, so stopping is not necessarily a criterion.

On it being the "only" way, some of that has been covered. Would agree with much of what's been said- it indicates in their literature that they have no corner on the recovery market, they encourage the use of other resources like docs, therapy and etc. Like church, sales, or most other places where there's humans, there will be zealots/True Believers who even if they aren't trying to put it out, give the impression that there's one way.

Similar things though, are true most anywhere. Guys who race cars will tell you there's One True Carburetor, guitar players will tell you there's One True Axe, martial "artists" will tell you that there's One True System (Style, etc ad nauseum). It'd be cool if everyone always gave the options, and I think they have a responsibility to do so if they have 'em, but they also have a responsibility to tell you what they think is best, even if myopic.

Like it's been said, at the end of the day, they'll happily let you go anywhere else you like, and still be cool to you if you return. If not, as it sometimes happens too, there's other meetings with other people to check out.

/rant my .02

[dylanransom]

AA and other 12-step groups are the only game in town (in most cities). Of course it's not the only way. Most people in AA are in and out their whole life, and it's good they have that to fall back on, but 95% don't change their behavior.

[The Fury]

AA certainly helps, but is by no means necessary.

My mom was a huge alcoholic (up to sixteen a day), went to AA for the first two years and doesn't go anymore. She's been sober for a good eight years now.

[Voltaire]

I stopped using percocet after many tries without NA. Unfortunately, I re-injured my neck to the point where I'm back on them again. Had the water main to my house go Monday and my vehicle break down for the first time tuesday so not only am I using percocet but I'm drinking like a motherfucker at the moment and it's not even 3pm.

[cookeboy189]

Originally Posted by Bladderbuster

Maybe if I provide a little background my statement will be better understood, at least from my point of view.

Firstly, to all of those who directly responded to my comment - you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't wish you any harm for disagreeing with me.

Secondly, I spent six year of my childhood in and out of foster homes because I have an addict for a mother. Oh, she attended meeting, had sponsors, did time in jail, and spent plenty of time on the street. I didn't see my mother once between the ages of 12-16. When I was 16 I went to live with her for the last time. She was clean and sober this time. She was going to A.A. and working a full time job. Then her boyfriend left her. In two weeks time she was drinking a handle of vodka a day and we were being evicted. Why? Because she was weak, and didn't give two shits about anyone but herself. I went back to a foster home, and she became homeless and a prostitute. Luckily, I ended up in a home with some people who actually gave a shit. I managed to graduate high school, and joined the army.

My mother is supposedly clean again, and she tries to contact me from time to time. But I spent my whole child hood dealing with her weakness, lies, and complete junkie bullshit. Now, I don't have the time or energy to deal with hers or any other addicts lies, bullshit or excuses.

Sorry, if this is way off subject from the original thread topic.

I could relate to this. My father was an alcoholic for a long part of my life. Didnt get too bad until i was about 17 and my mom finally decided to boot him out. But if forced us to move out of the house ive grown up in my entire life (one week before my high school graduation), and i still havent talked to him since.

My father in and out of rehab multiple times becomes the most annoying thing in the world. you hear all the bs, excuses, sympathy...that you get the first couple times. but then it grows old. and you grow tired of the bullshit. you hear "oh alcoholism is a disease" and it makes me laugh. i drink, ive smoked weed...am i addicted? hell no. im responsible enough and mature enough to know when to get your shit handled. People in AA get babied, and told its not you...its your mental health. It's so easy to just give up on life and not try. Any person can do that...but it takes a STRONG person to get over that.

yes AA helps. i believe addicts need help. but the person in rehab needs to help themselves. So im with you since your first post that most people in AA are weak and need some bs feedback from a counselor to give them a backbone.