[mademan081]

Because when people realized a good sprawl and decent striking was the cryptonite for the Gracies, their hay day was over.

[coutrout76]

Originally Posted by December

the game has evolved past them

I don't know about this. I just think that the first generation of gracies, or second if you count helio, are past thier primes. The era when BJJ alone(A.K.A. joyce) could dominate the sport is over,but i think there is still a place for fighters with a single style background. If roger develops
a tolerable stand up game, he could still rely on his bjj to win fights. After all, with wins over kevin randleman & vaneltijn overeem, Ron Waterman was not exactly a slouch.

[macman1000]

they all teach.

[Striderx5]

..............

[coutrout76]

Originally Posted by Striderx5

..............

You can say THAT again.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Torrid

The sport moved past most of the gracie clan. Would still love to see Roger in the mix of things, a little small for a HW but still...

I don't think Roger is small for a HW. At 220 he looks lean and slim. He's a tall guy (6'4"), so putting on 20 pounds (should that be necessary) wouldn't be difficult for him.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by coutrout76

I don't know about this. I just think that the first generation of gracies, or second if you count helio, are past thier primes. The era when BJJ alone(A.K.A. joyce) could dominate the sport is over,but i think there is still a place for fighters with a single style background. If roger develops
a tolerable stand up game, he could still rely on his bjj to win fights. After all, with wins over kevin randleman & vaneltijn overeem, Ron Waterman was not exactly a slouch.

I also think Roger can succeed in MMA. Besides his BJJ skills, he's training with Renzo, a very good coach.
Roger did well against Waterman, even though the fight strategy of the latter sucked altogether (why didn't he strike Roger, who at the time had probably little to none stand-up game?)

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Jay-just scrap

, but they also gave other martial artists who were naturally gifted athletes the tools for countering bjj.

This statement is key to understanding what happened to the Gracies. In MMA dawn they had an edge: BJJ/GJJ, which enabled them to defeat their opponents. That edge is gone, and there's obviously a much greater chance of finding a gifted athlete among the big population of MMA practitioners than amidst the Gracie family, which is a relatively small group. In the end it's all about statistics

[BDelurey]

[coutrout76]

Originally Posted by BDelurey

false. the only reason that gracies/ bjj alone no longer dominate is because other people learned their art. Their original goal in mma was to prove that their art was the best, and was essentially unstoppable against other martial arts. There is no doubt that they did that. when a single family can dominate the sport it means they are doing something right. The bjj vs. mma
debate is complete bullshit. Bjj occurs every time skilled fighters go to the ground. The gracies never set out to prove that every gracie was one of the worlds greatest, they set out to prove their style was the best, and 14 years after joyce won the first ufc, NOBODY has proved otherwise.