[Chinaboxer]

Originally Posted by NinjaKilla187

If by "Chinese Boxing" you mean Kung Fu you would be correct *son*, although even then he still doesn't have any verified fights against accomplished "Chinese Boxers". The problem is you have lots of people, including on this forum trying to claim he was an accomplished western boxer and he was not.

from wikipedia

"At age 12, Lee entered La Salle College and later he attended St. Francis Xavier's College. In 1959, at the age of 18, Lee got into a fight and badly beat his opponent, getting into trouble with the police.[10] His father became concerned about young Bruce's safety, and as a result, he and his wife decided to send Bruce to the United States to live with an old friend of his father's. Lee left with $100 in his pocket and the titles of 1958 Boxing Champion and the Crown Colony Cha Cha Champion of Hong Kong."

At 18, he was the reigning St. Francis Xavier's College boxing champion, beating out all the European boxers.

His roster of private students during his time in Seattle was impressive to say the least. He personally taught anyone and everyone who was involved in Full Contact Martial Arts which was the UFC of that time. People like Joe Lewis wouldn't study with someone unless you could prove it to him, which meant you had to spar him. Bruce in fact sparred all his private students and could handle them with grace and finesse, which is why everyone who was someone during that time wanted to learn from him.

[IrishBeatDown]

i believe that wikipedia is the definitive authority on all subjects because it is a conglomeration of facts from anyone with an internet connection.... with the whole world as its knowledge base surely there could never be an error, exaggeration, inaccuracy or blatant lie. why? because people don't put stuff on the internet, or even open their mouth for that matter if they arent 100% certain that what they have to say is irrefutable fact.

[Chinaboxer]

"In 1958, Bruce was “asked” to leave La Salle College (presumably for behavioral reasons), and was then enrolled at St. Francis Xavier, where his brother Kenny concinved him to enter the interschool boxing competition. Using a mixture of Western boxing and Wing Chun, Bruce soundly defeated the 3 year defending champion, Gary Elm of St. George V. School."

"For instant most websites with information on Bruce Lee state that a teenaged Lee entered a amateur boxing tournament in Hong Kong in 1958 and state that he knocked out his first three opponents in the first round and then knocked out his third and final opponent, Gary Elms, in the third round to win the Inter School Hong Kong Boxing Tournament, a local amateur competition. According to the eye witness testimony of Rolf Clausnitzer, Elms lasted the distance in a bout which was dominated by Lee. In his account of the tournament Clausnitzer commented “I honestly believe that Gary did not land even one single scoring punch throughout the entire three one minute rounds. Gary was knocked down several times, but he was not knocked out contrary to what has been reported in various articles and books!”

[I Shoot Doubles]

/sarcasm

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by Chinaboxer

"In 1958, Bruce was “asked” to leave La Salle College (presumably for behavioral reasons), and was then enrolled at St. Francis Xavier, where his
!”

1) You are repeating the same tired old unsubstantiated claims. Even if all of this is true, and I am willing to accept it at face value, it means very little. This Gary Elms guy was not a boxer of any particular accomplishment. You cannot justify calling a guy a great fighter/legendary martial artist based on a questionable claim of having been successful in intramural competition against a nobody. Bruce Lee never beat any accomplished amatuer or professional boxer. He could have entered boxing competitions in the US if he chose to and he did not.

2) About the only "full contact Karate man" Bruce Worked with was Joe Lewis and this is what Joe has to say about him. Also, in the Mike Miles interview Joe says directly that Bruce Lee never produced a good competitive fighter and implies that Bruce Lee learned a lot more from him that he did from Bruce. http://www.fightingmaster.com/legend.../interview.htm http://www.mikemiles.com/lewis.html

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Q8- The late Bruce Lee, who is a legend in most parts of the world, invited you to fight against him in the movie " The way of dragon". You did not accept that request and Chuck Norris played the role. Why did you not accept that request and do you have a special memory of Bruce?

Joe Lewis: Bruce Lee told me that he wanted to prove to the world that the Chinese martial artists were superior to all the other races, the Koreans, the Japanese, and in particular, the Caucasians. At that time, no one knew that "Enter the Dragon" was going to become a major $300,000,000 mega film. My advisors told me not to do martial arts films period. Bruce Lee was a five-foot, seven inch, 138 pound, non-combat type martial artist. I was strictly into combat and competition. I was almost six feet tall, 200 pounds. I didn't understand the point of why he wanted to ask me to allow him to beat me up in the film to prove this personal point of his. Of course, I wanted to do movies, but at that time and based on what my advisors told me, it just didn't seem like a good idea to fulfill someone else's ego trip. In retrospect, by telling him no or just avoiding getting involved with his films, you might say it was a major mistake in my life. Of course, I have special memories about Bruce. He was very intelligent and very creative, two things which I enjoy. He thought in principle. He had a high abstract intelligence. That's a thing I admire most in people. He also enjoyed physical development and fitness, two things which I like. I won art contests as a kid, and he was also a fabulous artist and enjoyed philosophy, two things on which we were both extremely hooked.
--------------------

While Joe goes out of his way not to bust on one of the most popular martial arts actors of our time, reading between the lines it is pretty damn obvious he didn't think much of his fighting skills. He says basically, I (Joe) was interested only in fighting and he (Bruce) was basically into philosophy.

This is exactly my point. You are more than welcome to claim Bruce Lee was a great action start and martial arts "philosopher" what ever that means. He didn't fight. He was not a fighter. Get over it.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by Chinaboxer

from wikipedia

"His roster of private students during his time in Seattle was impressive to say the least. He personally taught anyone and everyone who was involved in Full Contact Martial Arts which was the UFC of that time. People like Joe Lewis wouldn't study with someone unless you could prove it to him, which meant you had to spar him. Bruce in fact sparred all his private students and could handle them with grace and finesse, which is why everyone who was someone during that time wanted to learn from him.

You might actually want to research this stuff before you go around saying crap like this. Here is more from the Miles interview with Joe Lewis. Hardly the stuff of worshipful adulation.

http://www.mikemiles.com/lewis.html

--------------

Mike Miles: I have read stories about Bruce Lee competing in international boxing while he was in high school in Hong Kong. Any truth?

Joe Lewis: I do not believe this to be true. Bruce and I loved international boxing and he never told me this. Watch the early films of him in America working the heavy bag and you will see that he is hitting using Wing Chun punches. He is not delivering like a boxer.

Mike Miles: How about the propagation of the JKD style and how they criticize other Martial Arts styles. No I want to articulate more. How do you feel about the waythe JKD pundits criticize Kickboxing?

Joe Lewis: None of the JKD guys at the time competed. I do not mean this in a negative light but none ever tested their JKD against any other styles and fighters. Not one of them had a professional fight record. They all talk theory but that is the extent of it. There is "no functioning in the line of fire!"

Mike Miles: What about Bruce Lee and when you trained with him? Did you guys never spar?

Joe Lewis: Bruce never sparred with me or any of the other name fighters from the 1960's (Norris, etc.).

----------------------------

[ViceGrip]

Originally Posted by ddran15

In all seriousness I think Bruce Lee could of taken out most people back in his day in a real fight, because in areal fight it's not smart to go to the ground and wrestle like in mma cause of biteing, and his athletesizm. As for the knuckles I was curious to know becouse when I just got into martial arts I read somewhere that Bruce punched with the bottom three, so that is what I trained mostly, and I have never recieved an injury that way probably because they are conditioned for it. Now I mix it up.
As for systema my friend and I tested out which hits hurt the most on the body. We found that hits to the right side hurt about 2x more than on left, and a hammerfist thrown from the bottom up to the solar plexus with a wave motion hurt the most because the pain lasted a long time. The hammerfist was thrown like a backfist except with the bottom of the hand landing while traveling upwards starting from the legs.
Give it a try Aye

Hmmm..interesting. If you could please post video of you and your friend 'fisting each other in the OT forum, it might make a believer out of me. Please entitle it 'Fisting my friend to Explore the Systema method of Striking. I'll review it with my peers, and we'll let you know what we think.

[darnok]

Originally Posted by ViceGrip

Hmmm..interesting. If you could please post video of you and your friend 'fisting each other in the OT forum, it might make a believer out of me. Please entitle it 'Fisting my friend to Explore the Systema method of Striking. I'll review it with my peers, and we'll let you know what we think.

Systema is 90% bullshit, but their punches are very "efficient". I see a lot of russian fighters, including Fedor and Vovchanchyn punch in a simliar way. Very fluid and loose. You can see the wave of energy travel from their hip to their arm, as if their whole body was a whip.

They seem to be able to transfer nearly all the force from a small hip movement into the tip of their fist, resulting in decent power but the upper body muscles don't have to do nearly as much work as they would in traditional boxing. I don't throw my punches looping like they do, but I do think that dicking around with Systema has improved my boxing power and smoothness.

[ddran15]

Originally Posted by darnok

Systema is 90% bullshit, but their punches are very "efficient". I see a lot of russian fighters, including Fedor and Vovchanchyn punch in a simliar way. Very fluid and loose. You can see the wave of energy travel from their hip to their arm, as if their whole body was a whip.

They seem to be able to transfer nearly all the force from a small hip movement into the tip of their fist, resulting in decent power but the upper body muscles don't have to do nearly as much work as they would in traditional boxing. I don't throw my punches looping like they do, but I do think that dicking around with Systema has improved my boxing power and smoothness.

Same here before I looked into systema I punched very flexed, like karate style. Now my punches are smooth and powerful and pretty quick, and I also think alot of systema is crap especially psychic moves. But the punches are efficient like darnok said, I don't get why I get crap about it, go and try on a human, it hurts more Im telling you.

[ViceGrip]

Originally Posted by darnok

Systema is 90% bullshit, but their punches are very "efficient". I see a lot of russian fighters, including Fedor and Vovchanchyn punch in a simliar way. Very fluid and loose. You can see the wave of energy travel from their hip to their arm, as if their whole body was a whip.

They seem to be able to transfer nearly all the force from a small hip movement into the tip of their fist, resulting in decent power but the upper body muscles don't have to do nearly as much work as they would in traditional boxing. I don't throw my punches looping like they do, but I do think that dicking around with Systema has improved my boxing power and smoothness.

I'm thinking you may have missed the facetitious tone of my message...That or I'm just a fuck of a lot less funny than I think I am. I'm gonna go with the former though.