Shogun excuses by sherdoggers

[JKS]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

Stop it. Seriously.

I've been saying Shogun's overrated for SEVERAL years now. His striking is sloppy, his defense is weak, and he doesn't get away with it as well as the old wandy did because he doesn't have the speed, power, or aggression that Wandy does (new wandy is a MUCH better fighter since he's been in the UFC than he was in Pride).

His wrestling is sub-par- both his takedowns and takedown defense. You put him against a solid wrestler, and he'll get taken down all day. His takedowns are suspect- at best.

His strong points are his muay thai clinch, his GnP, and his BJJ.

Is shogun talented? Yes. Does he have potential to be a top fighter in the ufc? Yes.

But his training is all wrong- it's obvious that much of his technique is translated from Gi BJJ and judo to MMA, and that just doesn't cut it anymore. MMA groundgame and wrestling is now its own science.

His striking needs to be completely reworked. His clinch game is excellent, but his boxing needs serious work, and his kicks are nothing special.

Shogun is a great fighter, but chuteboxe is dated. Even Wandy knows it, that's why he left. Once upon a time it was revolutionary, being one of the first schools to incorporate the BJJ/Muay Thai combination that was so successful in early 2000s, but we're way past that now.

Forrest on the other hand is sluggish, but his technique for MMA is ahead of shogun. He's tougher than shogun, and has better cardio (by far) than shogun. ANd another main factor- he's MASSIVE compared to shogun.

Shogun's loss is a result of chuteboxe's refusal to update their training and their technique. Which is a shame, because shogun is a very solid BJJ blackbelt, with a ton of experience and is still very young.

A analysis of a fighter at its worse. You dont beat the fighters Shogun beat, the way he beat them without being dam good.

[Gai Jin]

Good observations TS

[Guru666]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

Stop it. Seriously.

I've been saying Shogun's overrated for SEVERAL years now. His striking is sloppy, his defense is weak, and he doesn't get away with it as well as the old wandy did because he doesn't have the speed, power, or aggression that Wandy does (new wandy is a MUCH better fighter since he's been in the UFC than he was in Pride).

His wrestling is sub-par- both his takedowns and takedown defense. You put him against a solid wrestler, and he'll get taken down all day. His takedowns are suspect- at best.

His strong points are his muay thai clinch, his GnP, and his BJJ.

Is shogun talented? Yes. Does he have potential to be a top fighter in the ufc? Yes.

But his training is all wrong- it's obvious that much of his technique is translated from Gi BJJ and judo to MMA, and that just doesn't cut it anymore. MMA groundgame and wrestling is now its own science.

His striking needs to be completely reworked. His clinch game is excellent, but his boxing needs serious work, and his kicks are nothing special.

Shogun is a great fighter, but chuteboxe is dated. Even Wandy knows it, that's why he left. Once upon a time it was revolutionary, being one of the first schools to incorporate the BJJ/Muay Thai combination that was so successful in early 2000s, but we're way past that now.

Forrest on the other hand is sluggish, but his technique for MMA is ahead of shogun. He's tougher than shogun, and has better cardio (by far) than shogun. ANd another main factor- he's MASSIVE compared to shogun.

Shogun's loss is a result of chuteboxe's refusal to update their training and their technique. Which is a shame, because shogun is a very solid BJJ blackbelt, with a ton of experience and is still very young.

Put him againt a solid wrestler??? well Randleman took him down... and then the deepest knee bar i've seen was applied to Randleman and you know the rest...

[GSPisMMA187**]

this thread is OVERRATED.

[mycorona135]

Originally Posted by turbozed

This is a smart thing to do. Claim that every fighter who is winning is overrated. Then when they lose, and 99.9% of fighters WILL lose eventually, you can come back years later and claim that you've been saying for YEARS that they've been overrated.

Completely retarded. The only time this wouldn't work was if you called Rocky Marciano overrated. "OMG Gomi and Hughes were overrated. Been saying that for YEARS!" What were you saying when they beat like 10 guys in a row?

lol this is so true, watch when anderson, gsp, and penn lose someday everyones gonna come jumping out saying "ive been saying for years that they are overrated!!1!1"

[unfallen'star]

lol so I guess Rampage is a Shogun nuthugger then huh?

fuckin idiot.

[rampage4ever]

Originally Posted by BrokenCouch

again, any top 10 fighter would have mangled shogun with the condition he was in during that fight. forrest barely managed to finish him.

all these people that think his loss was somehow due to a lack of skill, preparation, or anything indicating something other than a poor choice to fight is just deluding themselves. and people who think forrest is somehow this magically amazing fighter out of nowhere are even more deluded.

when rampage obliterates forrest, then people will realize his fight w/ shogun was a fluke.

Thats funny to listen to "forrest barely managed to finnish him"


oh u idiot, stop living in 04-05, mma has taken a HUGE step since the chute boxe pride days.

Shogun got out boxed by lil'nog and literally spanked by "the snake". Then he beat a rampage with a shitty camp and a bruised rib (which he came into the fight with, shogun threw a sloppy punch to the body at 00:32 which further broke it), rampage told his corner _5_ times that his rib was broke, and they kept telling him to fight on, which is one of the reasons why rampage got a new camp after that incident and boy did that help. Look where Rampage is now and Shogun/Wandy. If Shogun and Wandy were so dominant as they would hold the belt in UFC by now. but no, wandy got owned by chuck, and shogun got spanked by forrest. rampage KTFO'd chuck and beat henderson, something silva would never be able to do, and sure as hell not shogun. i belive wandy is a much better fight than shogun, but not even close in the top 3 either of them anymore.

[DarylRevok**]

Originally Posted by mcpeepants23200

Shogun isn't with Chute Box anymore and he wasn't with them for the Forrest fight. So your post fails completely.

You are right, for how many months? Yes, it only takes a few months to fill all the holes that Chute Box has built into him for all those years.
You are a complete failure, FOAKY.

[sturmgeist]

I love how having one loss in recent memory "proves" how overrated somebody is. Dude was not fit to fight, so the worst you could say about him is that he was dumb to take the fight in his condition. Bad move on Shogun's part, Forrest capitalized and stepped it up bigtime and won. Great for him. But you're a fucking idiot if that's what you judge Shogun off of, a performance with no cardio and a blown out knee.

[unfallen'star]

Originally Posted by rampage4ever

Thats funny to listen to "forrest barely managed to finnish him"


oh u idiot, stop living in 04-05, mma has taken a HUGE step since the chute boxe pride days.

Shogun got out boxed by lil'nog and literally spanked by "the snake". Then he beat a rampage with a shitty camp and a bruised rib (which he came into the fight with, shogun threw a sloppy punch to the body at 00:32 which further broke it), rampage told his corner _5_ times that his rib was broke, and they kept telling him to fight on, which is one of the reasons why rampage got a new camp after that incident and boy did that help. Look where Rampage is now and Shogun/Wandy. If Shogun and Wandy were so dominant as they would hold the belt in UFC by now. but no, wandy got owned by chuck, and shogun got spanked by forrest. rampage KTFO'd chuck and beat henderson, something silva would never be able to do, and sure as hell not shogun. i belive wandy is a much better fight than shogun, but not even close in the top 3 either of them anymore.

Wandy got owned? He dropped Chuck twice and didn't get dropped once. They weren't slips either. They fought to a close decision and it was with the guy who'd been knocking out guys in the UFC for years. Hardly owned dumbass.