Shogun excuses by sherdoggers

[DMFC]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

you're absolutely right, which is actually my beef against his ground game- pure bjj just doesn't work in mma anymore, it needs modifications. gsp is a ton more dangerous on teh ground than many blackbelts in mma, because he has transitioned it for mma.

I think pure BJJ still works in MMA...to a point. until you fight guys like GSP then you need to come with something more advanced and modified. Guys like Maia are able to have success early on, and I'm excited to see what else Maia has when he fights someone who is able to at least hang with him on the ground and not get dominated.

[Sgt. Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by mycorona135

i thought shogun was a brown belt... maybe im just behind., oh and dont forget how young shogun is, who else has had a resume as impressive as his at that age?

which is why i think he's incredibly talented and has a ton of potential, and could be ridiculous if he made some modifications. these babies are just getting so damn bitter because they think shogun in his current stage could spank the entire division blindfolded with one hand.

i said he's overrated on sherdog- he's practically worshipped here. i didn't say shogun sucks, i didnt' say shogun can't hang, i said shogun needs to make some changes if he wants to be one of the kings of 205, and at this stage we just dont know if he can do that. he's only had two fights against truly well-rounded mma practictioners, forrest and rampage, and page was injured in his fight. i guarantee you a rematch would be different.

HOWEVER, the fact that he can tool a pure bjj guys, pure kickboxers, and even solid wrestlers shows that with minor modifications, he can be ridiculous. he just needs to mesh everything better

[geezerjitsu]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

no, they're great fighters. the rampage fight definately is tainted- overeem, lil nog, and arona are good fighters, but they're not top five, and they're not even top ten anymore i dont believe. why? because they're dated as hell.

and what is sherdog's obsession with overeem anyways? he's just a really orthodoox muay thai fighter

I'd love to see Forrest fight Arona, Rampage, Little Nog and Overeem since they are ranked so low and are over the hill and everything. Maybe THEN he could avenge his losses to those superior fighters Jardine and Ortiz. Maybe he can even not go to decision with Ramirez.

[stu3ufc]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

Stop it. Seriously.

I've been saying Shogun's overrated for SEVERAL years now. His striking is sloppy, his defense is weak, and he doesn't get away with it as well as the old wandy did because he doesn't have the speed, power, or aggression that Wandy does (new wandy is a MUCH better fighter since he's been in the UFC than he was in Pride).

His wrestling is sub-par- both his takedowns and takedown defense. You put him against a solid wrestler, and he'll get taken down all day. His takedowns are suspect- at best.

His strong points are his muay thai clinch, his GnP, and his BJJ.

Is shogun talented? Yes. Does he have potential to be a top fighter in the ufc? Yes.

But his training is all wrong- it's obvious that much of his technique is translated from Gi BJJ and judo to MMA, and that just doesn't cut it anymore. MMA groundgame and wrestling is now its own science.

His striking needs to be completely reworked. His clinch game is excellent, but his boxing needs serious work, and his kicks are nothing special.

Shogun is a great fighter, but chuteboxe is dated. Even Wandy knows it, that's why he left. Once upon a time it was revolutionary, being one of the first schools to incorporate the BJJ/Muay Thai combination that was so successful in early 2000s, but we're way past that now.

Forrest on the other hand is sluggish, but his technique for MMA is ahead of shogun. He's tougher than shogun, and has better cardio (by far) than shogun. ANd another main factor- he's MASSIVE compared to shogun.

Shogun's loss is a result of chuteboxe's refusal to update their training and their technique. Which is a shame, because shogun is a very solid BJJ blackbelt, with a ton of experience and is still very young.

so one loss in a pretty even fight makes him over rated

where do i start---Jackson, Arona, Overeem etc etc

[stu3ufc]

Originally Posted by geezerjitsu

I'd love to see Forrest fight Arona, Rampage, Little Nog and Overeem since they are ranked so low and are over the hill and everything. Maybe THEN he could avenge his losses to those superior fighters Jardine and Ortiz. Maybe he can even not go to decision with Ramirez.

lol --so true

[tapout021]

Your stupid hes not overrated! Yes he needs to work on his wrestling, and his striking is just fine the way it is..

[machine29]

Originally Posted by slimpickenz84

Shogun is a great fighter but his jackoff fans make it impossible to like him. I was so happy he lost and his fans were humbled. They needed that. But Shogun is young and I hope he gets better and comes back with a vengeance. Legends like Chuck and Randy are almost at the end and we need new ones.

Humbled?

Just check all the excuse threads. they arent humbled at all. I agree with u completely, i cant like Fedor or shogun cause of the ones who worship them.

[King of Fists]

Dumb thread, Shogun had a torn ligament in his knee and that´s all that needs to be said.

It´s not an excuse, it´s the REASON for his poor performance. I don´t care about Forrest´s boo-boo on his shoulder either, it wasn´t a torn acl.

Shogun shouldn´t have been exercising that night, let alone fighting

[LowelltheHammer]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

Rampage had a broken rib BEFORE entering the ring, overeem is like, the most overrated fighter ever, lil nog gets a lot of hype because of being big nog's brother (although he is a solid fighter), and arona is a purely one dimensional fighter.

That being said, i'm not saying shogun sucks. i'm saying, he's overrated on SHERDOG.

people act like he's the undisputed king of 205- chuck would kill him, wandy would beat him, tito could probably take him, machida could take him, i bet rampage could take him now.

he must change his training routine if he wants to CONTINUE his success, which he definately achieved early in his careere (at that time, MMA wasn't as evolved as it is today).

he was ahead of the game at one point- the game evolved, and he didn't.

and no, shogun did not look any different than he ever did. that first round, he fought just as well as he did against anybody else in mma, but name me one fighter he's fought who'se as well rounded as forrest, as large as forrest, and has as good cardio as forrest does

You're not saying he sucks, you're just saying that his striking is sloppy, his defense is garbage, he's not as quick or aggressive as other fighters, his wrestling isn't worth a shit, and his BJJ and judo training is useless for MMA competition. I completely understand. </sarcasm>
There's a difference between hating a fighter's fanboys and bashing a fighter and undercutting their success. What you are doing here, by acting like Shogun's career has been nothing special, is more of the latter than the former. Regardless of circumstantial bullshit, Shogun defeated 4 of the highest rated PRIDE MWs of the time frame (don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise), and that deserves more respect than you are giving it.

Oh, and by the way, saying that Rampage lost because of a broken rib is an excuse, which makes you a hypocrite. Thought you should know.

[[Rec]]

Without the Stomps and soccer kcks Shogun is an average gground fighter with bad wrestling and someone who gets outboxed by nakamura./thread