Shogun excuses by sherdoggers

[DMFC]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

griffin's a tough fighter who'se using the most advanced approach to mma training today, and he works hard.

He definitely is one of the hardest workers...not sure what your basis for the most advanced claim is though...

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

this wasn't the first time shogun's looked like this- nak made him look bad despite losing, coleman broke his arm because shogun didn't breakfall correctly, and babalu beat him because of the same exact things i'm mentioning now (wrestling weakness).

;

The Nak fight and Babalu fight's are good points, although he was really young when he fought Babalu. The Coleman fight was a freak accident...he didnt fall correctly but it was still just an accident.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

i'm just saying shogun needs to update his training, anybody who can't see that is nuthugging. bring in any boxing purists, and they'll tell you that. my muay thai instructor CRINGES whenever somebody mentions chute boxe muay thai.

whatever, sherdog's a bunch of nuthuggers, and it'll never change.

Chute Boxe is definitely a distinct style...it's ultra aggressive, oftentimes at the expense of technique. Your muy thai coach is probably a purist in the same way a boxing trainer cringes at MMA standup technique...but like with boxing, it's effective in MMA. So I see what you're saying, just keep in mind its not pure muy thai.

[Sgt. Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by BB in Crazy!!!!

I still thought Shogun won the first round with Forrest, and if he didn't gas bad it would have been a rerally close fight. If he would have had some good boxing and not torn his ACL I believe he would have won.

And the ground game looked pretty good on both parts, Forrest didn't do any better JJ wise than Shogun. If I recall Forrest had a pretty nice gash on his head from GNP. But I do agree with you on many of the other accounts. Ninja has some of the same problems.

you're pretty much right. better boxing would bring shogun a LONG way.

i dont think his acl was torn DURING the fight- it was either well before or shortly afterwards.

and yea, the first round could have gone either way. like i said, better boxing and modifying his cardio training to 5 minute rounds would help BIG

[BilderbergGroup]

Originally Posted by slimpickenz84

Pull your thumb out of your mouth and wipe away the tears Alice, I wasn't insulting your boy. I said I like Shogun, but being bombarded every day about how great he is and that he's invincible and the Forrest funeral and blah blah blah kinda wears on you for a while. I said his fans are jackoffs, not him. Stop rattling the bars of your crib okay?? Shogun will be back. Take a breather and go eat some apple sauce. In comes that airplane..........!

You're obviously a fucking moron. I'm not even a Shogun fan. i don't like how he dissed Wanderlei. I just called you out for being an idiot.

Look dumbass, you said his jack off fans make it impossible to like him. How is that saying that you like him? You said the opposite, you said you don't like him because of his fans which is pure bitch. That's just lame and moronic.

[DMFC]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

you're pretty much right. better boxing would bring shogun a LONG way.

i dont think his acl was torn DURING the fight- it was either well before or shortly afterwards.

and yea, the first round could have gone either way. like i said, better boxing and modifying his cardio training to 5 minute rounds would help BIG

I've watched it a few times and I think once I got over being upset, that I'd give it to Forrest...but it was really close.

His ACL was torn in the leadup...he was unable to train cardio the last few weeks. that coupled with Forrest's pace are why he gassed so horribly

[mycorona135]

i thought shogun was a brown belt... maybe im just behind., oh and dont forget how young shogun is, who else has had a resume as impressive as his at that age?

[Sgt. Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by geezerjitsu

I love how it is no big deal to get past Rampage, Overeem, Little Nog, and Arona. Talk about excuses.

no, they're great fighters. the rampage fight definately is tainted- overeem, lil nog, and arona are good fighters, but they're not top five, and they're not even top ten anymore i dont believe. why? because they're dated as hell.

and what is sherdog's obsession with overeem anyways? he's just a really orthodoox muay thai fighter

[geezerjitsu]

Originally Posted by BB in Crazy!!!!

I still thought Shogun won the first round with Forrest, and if he didn't gas bad it would have been a rerally close fight. If he would have had some good boxing and not torn his ACL I believe he would have won.

And the ground game looked pretty good on both parts, Forrest didn't do any better JJ wise than Shogun. If I recall Forrest had a pretty nice gash on his head from GNP. But I do agree with you on many of the other accounts. Ninja has some of the same problems.

Yes, in striking he was essentially toying with Forrest in the beginning of the fight. It was what everyone expected until I guess the beginning of the second when something went horribly wrong with Shogun looking like the walking dead (injury, gassing, whatever it was).

[IrishFighter]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

i didn't notice this till now.

shogun lands a lot of leg kicks, but have you ever seen anyone limp as a result of shogun's leg kicks? Maybe lil nog, but lil nog trained pretty much orthodox boxing for his standup, and the boxing stance is incredibly prone to leg kicks. there's an awesome boxer at our gym, his hands are way better than mine, but i can hang with him just because of how ackward his kick defense is because of his boxing stance

lil nog has terrible wrestling, and so does his brother. yes, i'm familiar they have black belts in GI judo, but that doesn't really mean much. if you can't transition it to mma, it's meaningless.

as far as wanderlei is concerned- the old wanderlei would have gotten killed by chuck. rushing in with his chin way up, he would have gotten the babalu treatment. you dont rush in with loopy punches and your chin pointed at the cieling against a counter puncher.

do you people not train any standup? any boxing? any muay thai?

Wtf since when do you have to make your opponent limp to have good leg kicks haha! Man the "old" Wanderlei went in against Cro Cop and Mark Hunt(he won imo). Your talking shite and splitting hairs looking for any reason to diminish Shogun as a fighter. The guys that made up excuses were annoying but fuck whats wrong with you are you just looking for attention. troll job.

[Sgt. Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by DMFC

He definitely is one of the hardest workers...not sure what your basis for the most advanced claim is though...

what i mean by advanced- is his training with xtreme couture- their nutrition, cardio, sparring, ground game, wrestling, and striking, it's all tought in direct relation to mma. a lot of schools kind of teach each discipline individually and expect the fighter to be able to transition everything properly

The Nak fight and Babalu fight's are good points, although he was really young when he fought Babalu. The Coleman fight was a freak accident...he didnt fall correctly but it was still just an accident.

he was young when he fought babalu, and i dont hold the loss against him in a ranking sense, but the weakness is definately still there. and as far as the coleman accident, the breakfall is something that's drilled into you from day one for wrestling, bjj, etc. when you trian it that much it shoudl be muscle memory at that point, so he would have had to go out of his way to do that unless he hasn't been properly training wrestling.


Chute Boxe is definitely a distinct style...it's ultra aggressive, oftentimes at the expense of technique. Your muy thai coach is probably a purist in the same way a boxing trainer cringes at MMA standup technique...but like with boxing, it's effective in MMA. So I see what you're saying, just keep in mind its not pure muy thai.

you're absolutely right, which is actually my beef against his ground game- pure bjj just doesn't work in mma anymore, it needs modifications. gsp is a ton more dangerous on teh ground than many blackbelts in mma, because he has transitioned it for mma.

[Sgt. Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by IrishFighter

Wtf since when do you have to make your opponent limp to have good leg kicks haha! Man the "old" Wanderlei went in against Cro Cop and Mark Hunt(he won imo). Your talking shite and splitting hairs looking for any reason to diminish Shogun as a fighter. The guys that made up excuses were annoying but fuck whats wrong with you are you just looking for attention. troll job.

wanderlei went against a pure kickboxer in wandy/cc I. cc was terrified to engage because he didn't know squat on the ground. take a look at cc II for proof of what happens when sloppy striking faces refined striking.

hunt is a great standup fighter, but again, terrible ground game and bjj defense- look at how easy barnett handled him. i do agree that wandy won that fight though.

kicking for points means nothing if it doesn't hurt your opponent. look at arona's leg kicks, or filhos, sokodjous, crocop, anderson silva, those are muay thai, kick through the leg kicks. those are good leg kicks.

i'm not saying shogun's not a great fighter, i just can't stand these peopel taht think he's the undisputed king of 205. he'd give anybody a great fight, but i say he's more in the mid top ten than undisputed no1.