Shogun excuses by sherdoggers

[LMW87]

He beat Rampage, Lil Nog, Overeem and Arona over the course of like 5 months.

Yeah, overrated because of ONE LOSS... I suppose that nullifies all his past accomplishments?

Go back under the bridge, troll.

[CFT1982]

So TS is saying he's not a fan of Shogun?

[Sorata_chan]

... Maybe Shogun needs to change his training to adapt to the cage but about him being overrated... He was considered by many fans an most of the experts the numer 1 LHW until his last fight against Forrest Griffin. He lost that fight and I'm not gonna make any excuses for him, let's think just Forrest brought a great gameplan and was the best fighter that night. Before that he has an impressive run in Pride MW division, winning a GP and finishing almost every fighter in front of him but Lil Nog and Nakamura. He has only three loses in his record, one of them (against Coleman) that can be legitimately considered a fluke. Coleman didn't want to rematch Shogun after that by the way. At his age he can be considered not only a great promise to MMA but the most succesfull young fighter, not only for winning the GP but for the names he defeated and for finishing 14 of his 16 wins.

Even If he lost every fight from now until his retirement you can't erase all the things he has done

[Eddie Casselli]

Originally Posted by Sorata_chan

... Maybe Shogun needs to change his training to adapt to the cage but about him being overrated... He was considered by many fans an most of the experts the numer 1 LHW until his last fight against Forrest Griffin. He lost that fight and I'm not gonna make any excuses for him, let's think just Forrest brought a great gameplan and was the best fighter that night. Before that he has an impressive run in Pride MW division, winning a GP and finishing almost every fighter in front of him but Lil Nog and Nakamura. He has only three loses in his record, one of them (against Coleman) that can be legitimately considered a fluke. Coleman didn't want to rematch Shogun after that by the way. At his age he can be considered not only a great promise to MMA but the most succesfull young fighter, not only for winning the GP but for the names he defeated and for finishing 14 of his 16 wins.

Even If he lost every fight from now until his retirement you can't erase all the things he has done

WTF are you talking about? Coleman wanted a rematch with Shogun more than anything, it was master Rudimer who wouldnt allow it.

dont speak on subjects you know nothing about.

When a 240 lbs olympic wrestler takes you down, and you post with one arm and get hurt, its no fluke..

[Ivan Moser]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

Stop it. Seriously.

I've been saying Shogun's overrated for SEVERAL years now. His striking is sloppy, his defense is weak, and he doesn't get away with it as well as the old wandy did because he doesn't have the speed, power, or aggression that Wandy does (new wandy is a MUCH better fighter since he's been in the UFC than he was in Pride).

His wrestling is sub-par- both his takedowns and takedown defense. You put him against a solid wrestler, and he'll get taken down all day. His takedowns are suspect- at best.

His strong points are his muay thai clinch, his GnP, and his BJJ.

Is shogun talented? Yes. Does he have potential to be a top fighter in the ufc? Yes.

But his training is all wrong- it's obvious that much of his technique is translated from Gi BJJ and judo to MMA, and that just doesn't cut it anymore. MMA groundgame and wrestling is now its own science.

His striking needs to be completely reworked. His clinch game is excellent, but his boxing needs serious work, and his kicks are nothing special.

Shogun is a great fighter, but chuteboxe is dated. Even Wandy knows it, that's why he left. Once upon a time it was revolutionary, being one of the first schools to incorporate the BJJ/Muay Thai combination that was so successful in early 2000s, but we're way past that now.

Forrest on the other hand is sluggish, but his technique for MMA is ahead of shogun. He's tougher than shogun, and has better cardio (by far) than shogun. ANd another main factor- he's MASSIVE compared to shogun.

Shogun's loss is a result of chuteboxe's refusal to update their training and their technique. Which is a shame, because shogun is a very solid BJJ blackbelt, with a ton of experience and is still very young.

Um. What are your credentials? STFU.

[windkick]

the funny thing is, Wand is 1-1 in UFC, and was like 17-2 or some rediculous number in Pride...with a loss to a washed up Chuck and a win over a over-rated Jardine and hes a TOTALLY BETTER FIGHTER IN THE UFC NOW that he has beat one of your favorite TUF fighters so now he must be good

what a joke, besides...this thread was over before it started, Shogun isnt Chute Boxe anymore and was/is injured...hard to compete at 100% when your injured. and saying Shoguns cardio isnt good is lame in its own way...thats the ONE THING Chute Boxe fighters were all known for...there cardio

im out.

[windkick]

Originally Posted by Eddie Casselli

WTF are you talking about? Coleman wanted a rematch with Shogun more than anything, it was master Rudimer who wouldnt allow it.

dont speak on subjects you know nothing about.

When a 240 lbs olympic wrestler takes you down, and you post with one arm and get hurt, its no fluke..

having a small LHW fighting a 240 lb wrestler is dumb shit Pride did sometimes. that fight couldv single handily started the downfall of shoguns career

[LMW87]

By the way, I mentioned that he

beat Rampage, Lil Nog, Overeem and Arona over the course of like 5 months.

That doesn't sound as impressive now, but let's analyze it at the time:

Rampage was top 5
Lil Nog was top 10
Overeem was just outside the top 10
Arona was top 5

No other LHW has beaten that many top fighters in the last few years.

[chicken#1]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Angel Eyes

Stop it. Seriously.

I've been saying Shogun's overrated for SEVERAL years now. His striking is sloppy, his defense is weak, and he doesn't get away with it as well as the old wandy did because he doesn't have the speed, power, or aggression that Wandy does (new wandy is a MUCH better fighter since he's been in the UFC than he was in Pride).

His wrestling is sub-par- both his takedowns and takedown defense. You put him against a solid wrestler, and he'll get taken down all day. His takedowns are suspect- at best.

His strong points are his muay thai clinch, his GnP, and his BJJ.

Is shogun talented? Yes. Does he have potential to be a top fighter in the ufc? Yes.

But his training is all wrong- it's obvious that much of his technique is translated from Gi BJJ and judo to MMA, and that just doesn't cut it anymore. MMA groundgame and wrestling is now its own science.

His striking needs to be completely reworked. His clinch game is excellent, but his boxing needs serious work, and his kicks are nothing special.

Shogun is a great fighter, but chuteboxe is dated. Even Wandy knows it, that's why he left. Once upon a time it was revolutionary, being one of the first schools to incorporate the BJJ/Muay Thai combination that was so successful in early 2000s, but we're way past that now.

Forrest on the other hand is sluggish, but his technique for MMA is ahead of shogun. He's tougher than shogun, and has better cardio (by far) than shogun. ANd another main factor- he's MASSIVE compared to shogun.

Shogun's loss is a result of chuteboxe's refusal to update their training and their technique. Which is a shame, because shogun is a very solid BJJ blackbelt, with a ton of experience and is still very young.

always some inane imbecile with asinine post such as this out of straight from your ass where your head is completely buried deep inside. Gotta handed to Moron TS who actually thinks he knows and believes the inside scoop about chute box just like he thinks he once had a girlfriend.
His sloppy stand up knocked out 13 out of 16 opponents he faced including Arona, Rampage, and Alistair "Demolition Man" Overeem twice. At least know wtf your ass is crapping out of your mouth dumbass.

[XJCaTX]

Originally Posted by BrokenCouch

when rampage obliterates forrest, then people will realize his fight w/ shogun was a fluke.

MMAth strikes again. and that fight was real fluke btw