[super_orr]

Originally Posted by Chick

The Problem with Pro Wrestling is its Fake plain and simple.
MMA isn't, but people think MMA and WWE are in the same boat. Then you have everybody saying it takes no skill to fight MMA yet Pro Wrestling is TUFF.

This is the masses that do not watch MMA.
So you are gonna get some backlash.
I like Josh Barnett/Sakuraba, but outside of them I really don't like guys who did Pro Wrestling for a long stint. I am not speaking of Tito reffing either.
If Pro Wrestling went away tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear

If anyone said it takes no skill to fight MMA I would just start to laugh. Honestly, could they make a more ridiculous statement?

But for the record, pro-wrestling is hard work too.

[superkan]

He needs a good showing... no question. If Mir is in somewhat game shape i think he could be the toughest matchup for Brock just because he is big enough to maybe not be completely imposed upon by Brock's wrestling and get the sub.

Originally Posted by super_orr

Brock will really only pay-off for the UFC if he wins against Mir or at least gives him a good go. If he gets wrecked, its already over for him. Either way, I'm interested, since I'd also like to see Mir make a comeback.

[The Elemental O]

Originally Posted by Chick

The Problem with Pro Wrestling is its Fake plain and simple.
MMA isn't, but people think MMA and WWE are in the same boat. Then you have everybody saying it takes no skill to fight MMA yet Pro Wrestling is Tough.
This is the masses that do not watch MMA.
So you are gonna get some backlash.
I like Josh Barnett/Sakuraba, but outside of them I really don't like guys who did Pro Wrestling for a long stint. I am not speaking of Tito reffing either.
If Pro Wrestling went away tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear.
WWE, Senator McCain and TED Turner almost ended our Sport. So sorry if you get Pro Wrestling haters, but Pro Wrestling in America today has screwed over MMA. Especially by enticing its best stars at the time to do the fake stuff

Well, Pro wrestling helped contribute a lot of MMA's evolution especially in Japan, so if it wasn't for guys like Karl Gotch and Shoot wrestling feds like UWF, MMA feds like UFC and Pride wouldn't have been founded until many years latter than the time they did start.

[sambogirl]

this is all you need to know about this topic

[SleepingTalon]

I'm not a huge pro wrestling fan, but I've read a lot about many of the guys online, and heard a lot of interviews with many of the ones I've seen on TV. I respect them and what they go through, so I'm basing what I type on that. The thing about most people on the forums, particularly this one, is that they think no matter what your previous accomplishments are, if you work for one fucking day in the WWE, you immediately lose all your ability. Kurt Angle could've gone to the WWE for 1yr, and people would've still said his olympic medal means nothing. Brock wasn't even in pro wrestling for very long, maybe 2yrs or so. His amateur career FAR outlasted his WWE stint, (probably 4 times over) yet he's still a "fake" wrestler. It's ridiculous.

It's also funny how people talk like if you're a pro wrestler, you're automatically a bigger pussy then everyone else, and have absolutely NO CHANCE to make it in MMA. I never hear the same thing about your average joe. who had no verifiable experience doing anything except being a mailman, yet he's less of a pussy than the pro wrestler that's on the road 3/4th's the year, with the body getting tortured, and has a better shot of being an MMA fighter, if both trained the same amount each day. Why? Because one is a "pro wrestler" and the other isn't. No other reason except that.

There are many pro wrestlers who could make the transition, and actually do wanna fight MMA. I read an interview with the wrestler CM Punk last month where he stated that he would like to fight, and probably will fight. before it's all said and done. He already trains in Chicago somewhere. It was also on his website when for awhile, dated from about a year ago, where he did a Q&A, and someone asked "If WWE mistreated you, what would you do?" He answered "I'd go buy a house with the stack of cash I made, and go fight in PRIDE" Rob Van Dam is not only a big MMA fan, but trains with Tito and all them. He actually helped Justin McCully get ready for his last few fights. Shelton Benjamin has a solid foundation to fight MMA with his amateur credentials. He was actually Brocks roommate. Samoa Joe from TNA trains MMA, and has a very solid judo background. The Hart family was notorious for being shooters. The list goes on and on.

Anyone that wanted to take thing seriously has as much of a shot as pretty much anyone else. Noone is saying it wouldn't take training and work ethic, but it's not out of reach...not even for the "lowly" pro wrestler.

[SleepingTalon]

Originally Posted by Chick

The Problem with Pro Wrestling is its Fake plain and simple.
MMA isn't, but people think MMA and WWE are in the same boat. Then you have everybody saying it takes no skill to fight MMA yet Pro Wrestling is Tough.
This is the masses that do not watch MMA.
So you are gonna get some backlash.
I like Josh Barnett/Sakuraba, but outside of them I really don't like guys who did Pro Wrestling for a long stint. I am not speaking of Tito reffing either.
If Pro Wrestling went away tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear.
WWE, Senator McCain and TED Turner almost ended our Sport. So sorry if you get Pro Wrestling haters, but Pro Wrestling in America today has screwed over MMA. Especially by enticing its best stars at the time to do the fake stuff

Are you fucking serious? Who the hell thinks they're the same? I've never heard anyone say that in my life. I've watched MMA with 8yr olds that watch WWE that knew the difference right off the bat. I'm not so sure that speaks for the general audience more than it speaks for idiots you must know. They don't even remotely resemble eachother.

[Kforcer]

Minoru Tanaka.

[j_hauva]

the best thing said about pro-wrestling is this quote.. i dont remember who said it first but it know that "king of old-school" steve corino...

""WRESTLING.... In Canada, it's a Tradition... in Mexico, it's a Religion.... in Japan, it's a Sport... in America.... It's a Joke." "


btw good thread

[J. Kidd]

remember when ludwig borga(sp?) tried to become an mma fighter ?

[WillTheThrill]

Originally Posted by super_orr

Before I begin, I just want to say that I am a professional wrestler, who also trains for MMA, and would like to do both. I am also a university graduate, and a fairly nice guy. I don't want to come off as an asshole on this one...

But...

I think its funny that all of the fanboys on here have such animosity towards pro-wrestling, but MMA fighters have no problem with it at all. Why do you think that is? In fact, most MMA fighters show a lot of respect to pro-wrestlers and in Japan they are looked upon as equals by both fans and fighters. Then why the hatred?

Well, I'll tell you. Plain and simple, the WWE as a corporation. The silly antics on their programming over shadows how great of athletes many (not all) of those guys are. The storylines, the bad acting, the monologues, etc. are all terrible innovations to the world of Pro-wrestling that have helped business, but hurt credibility. So much so in fact that most people can't stand to watch even 2 minutes of it because of all the really lame angles the wrestlers are basically forced into doing by writers who have no idea about the history of pro-wrestling or any idea about the mechanics of a wrestling match. In North America, Pro-wrestling on the largest stages (WWE, TNA) has become exactly the circus that most MMA fans envision and cringe at the thought of. However, in the smaller indy feds of North America (Ring of Honor, IWS, etc.) the wrestlers are not giant roided up guys who are oiled up and fake punch each other for 15 minutes. No, they are legit athletes with a wrestling style that is very snug and fast paced. Many of them train MMA (and those that don't at least respect it)to keep in shape, and also to get new ideas to make innovations to the north american pro-wrestling scene because frankly they are embarrassed to have WWE as a direct representation to the masses, which is effecting how actual sports fans view it.

In Japan, pro-wrestling is much different. It is a legacy of tradition that has deep roots in sumo wrestling, judo, and jiujitsu. The style of the matches is completely different than North Americas, with thick, solidly built (definitely non-roided) wrestlers working a stiff, realistic style that could be mistaken for real by a non-mma fan. In fact, some federations focus on having their particular feds style so realistic that it could honestly be mistaken for a pancrase match. Also, in Japan the wrestlers actually train in dojos in catch wrestling and judo to help the realism in their matches and to help protect themselves in case somebody tries to shoot on them during a work. Some of the wrestlers have actually become so good that they consider competing in legitimate MMA/judo/jiujitsu competitions and has led to a lot of memorable fighters (such as Sakuraba) getting into MMA. Likewise, a lot of MMA fighters who have wanted to supplement their incomes have taken part in pro-wrestling exhibitions (such as Frye, Coleman, Randleman, etc.).

The main problem I have is not with people not liking pro-wrestling. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how much I might disagree. My problem lays with people bashing it without having an educated opinion or a grasp of what it really is. Pro-wrestling is NOT WWE. WWE is a weak bastardization of what pro-wrestling used to be in North America (and still is in most feds in Japan). The opinion that all professional wrestlers are roided up underwear models, although I could see how someone who never gave it much thought might think that, is utterly wrong. The fact of the matter is that many pro-wrestlers have legitimate athletic credentials under their belts long before their wrestling careers even started. The sad part of it is that many MMA fans (mostly the TUF fanboy crowd) think that because pro-wrestling is scripted that that means that the wrestlers are NOT ATHLETIC. I don't even know how to explain how silly this is. Brock Lesnar is the poster boy for this right now due to his recent stab at an MMA career. Everybody knows Brock from the WWE, but he was also one of the best amateur wrestlers of all-time, and that is no joke. If he had come straight out of the NCAA (where he was heavyweight champion in 2000) and went in to MMA, he would've had a huge following with MMA fans, due to what a freak of nature he is athletically. Here is a 6'3 285 pound NCAA champion, who bench presses 600 lbs, can do a standing backflip, and in his first and only MMA fight he beat a much more experienced (former olympic judo silver medallist) MMA fighter and dominated him in a very convincing technical manner. Yet, many of the people on the sherdog forums refer to him as a "fake" wrestler. Now, while pro-wrestling may be scripted, it is not fake. It is very rough on your body and has a lot of pain involved with its performance, but that aside, I don't understand how anyone can think that because he used to work for the WWE that he isn't a good athlete anymore. This type of sentiment usually comes from fanboys who don't want to believe that a pro-wrestler could beat their favorite MMA fighter, but the fact remains at this very moment that a lot of the top HWs in the world aren't rushing to fight Brock.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that pro-wrestlers are going to take over MMA. What I AM saying though is that in today's MMA scene, the most important thing is to be athletic/tough if you want to have a successful MMA career because there are so many MMA schools with former combat sports champions just itching to train the new breed of fighters. Pro-wrestlers (generally, not definitely) fit that description and many of them already have rudimentary understandings of grappling/boxing, plus they are willing to do almost anything without a second though, and have experience in front of large crowds. This is a decent building block to start with when someone like Miletich, Bas, or Shammy is raining info on you and working you hard. That is why many pro-wrestlers do well in MMA, or at least have entertaining fights.

The bottomline is that pro-wrestling isn't trying to be MMA, and hopefully MMA doesn't go the way of pro-wrestling (like worked matches, although I know there has been at least a handful already). I like both of them, for totally different reasons. A true MMA fan isn't worried that "pro-wrestlers are going to invade MMA" because a person who understands MMA understands that if you don't/can't win fights, you won't be around long. On the same reasoning, a true MMA fan should be able to see how athletic many pro-wrestlers (AJ Styles, Kenta, Bryan Danielson, Kurt Angle, etc.) are, and treat them with respect. I have yet to see an MMA competitor treat any pro-wrestler with disrespect in person, and I have been backstage at TKO and KOTCCAN events regularily, not because of any type of fear but because MMA is a sport. Its two athletes conversing. Its not "MMA is real. You're fake." crap, ending with a scrap. Also, I have trained with Gary Goodridge and been to training seminars with GSP, and both have been really respectful to it, along with many of TKO fighters I know. This is why it baffles me as to why Sherdog posters have the gall to talk shit about really good athletes, especially when I doubt many of them have ever set foot in a gym before. Athletes are athletes and with proper, world class training, anyone has a shot in an MMA fight.

So, in closing, I hope that if anyone takes the time to read this whole essay, (I know its long, but it is also well written in comparison to 80% of the posts on here), that they will think the next time they say "fuck pro-wrestling" and realize what they mean to say is "fuck WWE". Barnett is a good fighter, one of the best HWs in the world, and if he wants to take part in Puroresu exhibitions for some extra-cash, everyone should respect that. It takes nothing away from his manliness, or his ability to beat people's asses for real. Same goes for Brock.

P.S. I'm betting on Brock against Mir.......Flame away guys!

Bashing the WWE huh? Dude you wish you wrestled in the WWE, you can't cut in the big time so you hate on it. Who cares what the retards on sherdog say about Pro Wrestling, really pro wrestling and the wwe are still going very strong and have plenty of fans and half the people here on Sherdog know nothing about MMA. You knock the WWE like your some big shot, your the one with no respect for the Business, those goes break there backs 5 days a week maybe even more to please the fans, I love MMA and its a big part of my life but I don't have the mind set thinking MMA is the end all be all and if you don't train it makes you a loser or if you wrestle for the wwe your not tough. You tried to defend Pro wrestling but at the same time you disrespect the WWE, The WWE has brought wrestling where it is today. You may be a wrestler but it sounds like to me you have no true love for the business you should just stick with MMA because I'm sure your wrestling matches suck anyway. Sorry dude you pissed off a life long wrestling fan, I had to speak up!!!