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Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > The Wasteland > -CHALLENGE- Why PRIDE FC Is Superior To The UFC

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Old 02-03-2007, 07:43 PM   #1 (permalink)

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-CHALLENGE- Why PRIDE FC Is Superior To The UFC



The only people who claim the UFC is better than PRIDE FC are people who have never seen PRIDE FC, or people who work for the UFC.




Imagine that you live in Japan, and you are a baseball fanatic. You follow a Japanese team, and Major League Baseball. You watch as many games as possible. It is clear to you that the best players and match-ups are found in the Major Leagues, although some players in the Japanese league are of great talent. These players often move to the Major Leagues, where the majority of the world’s best players compete for the biggest salaries and accolades.

Now imagine that the Japanese teams promote themselves as the greatest in the world. They claim their organization is the absolute top dog, and their Championship is the greatest on earth. They never, ever mention Major League Baseball, or the World Series. It is as though MLB does not exist. Worse, it costs much more to watch games for the local league than to watch a MLB game on TV. For some reason, this doesn’t matter to the baseball fans you know. They are obsessed with the local leagues, in spite of the extra cost they must pay to watch games of lesser quality. Most people even go as far as to tell you MLB sucks, and that you are stupid for thinking it is any good at all.

This is how I feel whenever I deal with rabid UFC fans who don’t know about PRIDE. These people might not be able to pick Fedor out of a police lineup, bet they are able to tell me how some unproven hack from Spike TV would “beat his ass.”

Am I supposed to laugh, or feel pity for a fan that is missing out on the best part of the most technical and exciting new sport to appear in decades?

The PRIDE Fighting Championships - this is the ultimate event in competitive combat. When at its best, this event is one of the most exciting in all of sports.

As most people reading this will know, PRIDE began in 1997 with fighters from many disciplines and weight classes testing each other in general fighting contests. It evolved through innovations like extensive cross-training, exciting new rules, and titleholders, defined by weight class. They also conducted the world’s greatest MMA tournaments, but it was primarily the organization’s lucrative contract with Fuji Television Network, Inc. that most enabled PRIDE to grow. Fighter salaries swelled to a level that allowed PRIDE to entice the best athletes, not only to join the organization, but to take on other super-elite fighters in awe-inspiring matches that are seldom equaled. It is beyond compare.

The production value of the live PRIDE FC event is superior. The pre-show openings are on par with rock concerts. Props valued in the hundreds of thousands of dollars are used, and the fighters are introduced by announcers in a dark arena lit only by insane LED light shows before extreme pyrotechnic displays are touched off amidst an absolutely huge crowd of cheering and adoring fans. These massive, fight-savvy crowds are nearly as integral to the PRIDE spectacle as are the fighters.

I was at UFC 40 at the MGM when the UFC set an attendance record of 13,055. They broke it at UFC 59, with
13, 060 fans.

On the other side of the Pacific, PRIDE K-1 Shockwave in 2002 brought
91,107 fans to Tokyo National Stadium, although this was a joint effort between two organizations, which increased the attendance.

PRIDE FC draws 40,000 to 45,000 fans at the Saitama Super Arena with regularity, but at PRIDE Final Conflict 2003, the paid attendance was
67,450 at the Tokyo Dome, for the finals of the PRIDE Middleweight Tournament. Don’t take my word for it, because I’ve never been to Japan, but UFC President Dana White was there at ringside, doing commentary for one of the matches. You can watch this DVD, and let Mr. White himself be the one to describe to you just how amazing it was to be there.



These big crowds of mostly Japanese fans are highly respectful and knowledgeable of the fight game. Their national history is tied into it, and they value the fighting spirit more than a win or a loss on a fighter’s record. They may sit quietly and cheer at key moments in the fight, or they may go absolutely berserk (especially when a famous Japanese fighter is involved in something serious). Because of the mindset of these fans, the fighters are always expected to display good sportsmanship. There are exceptions, but the sportsmanship element is a big deal in PRIDE, with hugs and congratulations often exchanged between winner, loser, and their corners, after a fight. The Japanese fans do not like bad sportsmanship dishonoring their events, and this adds to the character of the PRIDE FC contests. Wes “The Project” Sims was not fighting in PRIDE when he was bitten in the chest. Let that be a lesson to you.

A huge difference, possibly the most important between PRIDE Fighting Championships and the UFC, is in the rule variations. The PRIDE rules make for better, more exciting fights with more possibilities and more variety than the UFC rules, which are limited, mostly by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. I hope that UFC Vice President Marc Ratner (former executive director of the NSAC) will have some clout in getting the UFC rules changed. I was at the PRIDE FC Real Deal show in October, and the NSAC got big boos from the crowd because their rules are so bad. PRIDE had to adopt them in order to bring their show to the U.S. The change was painfully on display.

Because the first round in a PRIDE match is 10 minutes, as opposed to the UFC’s five minute first round, fighters in PRIDE must have extreme conditioning to go all out for that long without a break. If both fighters are in top condition, this makes for a better chance of a good fight.

In PRIDE matches, there is a scoring system that can cause a point deduction and a 10% deduction of a fighter’s purse for each yellow card infraction. Three yellow cards result in a disqualification. These cards may be issued for stalling, which is great incentive for the fighters to make solid action fights. Referees are quick to stand fighters up if they are at an impasse on the ground in PRIDE FC. If you want to see what the UFC does in these situations, watch a replay of the recent Heath Herring vs. Jake O’Brien fight – that is, if you can stay awake that long. Thankfully it was free on SPIKE. If people had to pay to see that, it would have been a tragedy.

In PRIDE FC, a fighter can stomp, soccer kick, or throw knees to the head of a downed opponent. A stipulation exists in order to outlaw the knees if the weight difference between the fighters is too great (over 20 kilos), and if the smaller fighter chooses to make them off limits for that match. None of these moves are permissible in the UFC at any time, and it shows. Their rules cut a vital dimension out of the sport, and it shows up in the (lacking) quality of their events.

By far the worst thing allowed in the UFC (other than letting Tito Ortiz grab the microphone after he fights) is elbows to the face. This causes way too many cuts and cheap victories, and it makes absolutely zero sense to continue to allow their use. The fans have paid good money and waited three months to see a fight, and then it is over in 43 seconds after a cheap elbow to the face thrown out of a clinch, or after a takedown. It also makes for situations where a fighter who has been dominated pulls a magic ‘cut by elbow’ rabbit out of his hat and takes a victory. The fight is over, and it proves nothing. Worst of all, the potential for a serious cut that threatens a career is also greater. The UFC should change this rule.

PRIDE takes place in a ring, not a cage. The sport has struggled with the unskilled barbarian image for long enough. Ultimate Fighting Championships, listen to me: it is time to get rid of the cage, even if this means Josh Koscheck can no longer flop on top of someone and push them up against it for three rounds. I know it will punish all those insomniacs who count on him, but this is for the common good of the sport. So do it.

Take a close look at the teams and schools heavily represented in PRIDE over the past five years: Chute Boxe Academy, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Red Devil Fight Club, Takada Dojo, Brazilian Top Team, and Team Cro Cop, among others. The UFC has Militich camp, and Team Punishment, as well as occasional representation from other schools, but it’s not really on the same level as PRIDE.

What’s more, PRIDE’s location in Japan made it easier for the organization to draw talent, as it was the logical progression for fighters who had success or became champions in Japanese organizations like Shooto, Pancrase, K-1 and RINGS to test themselves on the biggest stage, against the best competition, which was, of course, PRIDE. When those fighters join PRIDE, it is also inevitable that some fans of that organization begin to follow PRIDE. The UFC got little - if any - of this overflow, and typically garnered more amateur wrestlers, one-dimensional martial artists, or tough men going pro, which were smaller pockets of fans to begin with. Of course, the UFC had some world-class athletes, but they seemed fewer and certainly far less credentialed than those in PRIDE.

PRIDE over the past five plus years was truly a global phenomenon, with much more international flavor than the UFC. When you watch a PRIDE event on pay-per-view, you might hear referees, fighters, and corner men shouting in English, Japanese, Portuguese, Spanish, Russian, Polish, Croatian, Korean, or any number of other languages, because they have fighters from all over the world. Again, with some exceptions, the UFC has fighters of primarily North American origin. Hence, the reason so many people are loyal to the UFC in America: it is local, it is accessible, and the fighters’ names are recognizable.

The SPIKE TV deal was a brilliant move by the UFC because familiarity is the only hope they have if they want to compete with PRIDE. People follow what they are familiar with, but that does not change anything if a guy has never fought anyone world class on his way to that undefeated record. I have actually heard people say that they do not watch PRIDE because they can’t say the fighters’ names! Now that makes no sense.


If you can’t pronounce Fedor Emelianenko, you could just refer to him as “that guy who beat ______________.”


One of the quickest ways to demonstrate the dominance of talent in PRIDE as opposed to other mixed martial arts organizations is to look at the number of champions from those organizations that come to PRIDE FC. The UFC is no exception to this: Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Don Frye, Carlos Newton, Kevin Randleman, Josh Barnett, Ricco Rodriguez, Murillo Bustamante, Vitor Belfort, Royce Gracie, Chuck Liddell and Dan Henderson all went to PRIDE at one time or another. All of them were either UFC Champions, or won UFC tournaments, and those are just the guys I could think of off the top of my head. I think all of them would tell you where the tougher opposition lies.

Sure, the UFC is older, but how many PRIDE Champions can you name who ever fought in the UFC after fighting in PRIDE, prior to me posting this?


?


Not a lot, huh?

The major difference between the organizations is the depth of the talent pool. PRIDE, simply, has the top talent in the world. PRIDE has had Olympic wrestlers and Judoka, including many who won Olympic Gold or were World Champions. They have had K-1 level strikers, including a K-1 World Grand Prix Champion. They have had Kings of Pancrase, RINGS: King Of Kings Champions, and as you know, champs from many other organizations.

Again, with few exceptions, the UFC doesn’t have this. What they do have is either the same guys you do NOT want to see, fighting each other over and over again, or recycled, 40+ year old legends like Ken Shamrock or Royce Gracie, who got deals because the UFC wanted to capitalize on their huge name recognition. Nobody wants see aged legends whom they love get beat down by guys that wouldn’t have stood a chance against them in their prime. They certainly don’t want to pay $50.00 for the privilege.

At least I don’t.

This leads me to another point. Worse than having Royce Gracie take a beating from Matt Hughes is having guys from the SPIKE TV series The Ultimate Fighter come in and talk trash, and get promoted like they are the second coming of Bas Rutten. Hello? Is anyone watching? It usually sucks! Yes, Forest Griffin vs. Stephen Bonnar was a tremendous fight between two gutty and classy guys who gave it all they had. No, it does not make them able to beat Mauricio Shogun. That would be a very, very bad match up for either.

On this topic, my favorite quote came from ultra-inflated SPIKE TV hero Chris Leben.






“Maybe after this fight, he can go back to Japan, where the competition’s a little easier.”





Chris.. Chris.. Chris.. Yes, I guess you can’t really blame him; he’d been pumped up by the organization to the point where he thought he was going to easily mow down a world class fighter. Instead, he stepped in with a true professional, and took the worst 49 second beating of his life.

Anderson Silva, having honed his craft in the PRIDE ring for years, is an absolutely amazing fighter, yet he didn't stay around to win a PRIDE title. He was actually beaten by submission in his last two PRIDE appearances by Japanese opponents Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase.

Still, in only his second UFC appearance, Silva utterly dismantled the Champion, Rich Franklin 2:59 into the first round. Again he demolished his UFC opposition, and again, UFC fans were left scratching their heads and wondering how this fluke could have happened.

The same is true for Mirko Cro Cop and Quinton Rampage Jackson. They are truly world-class signings for the UFC, and two of the best fighters around. They are two of my favorite fighters on earth. Neither could become the PRIDE Champion. Cro Cop lost to Fedor, and Quinton Jackson was destroyed twice by Wanderlei Silva.

Guess what? They are going to go through the UFC like White Castles and Ex Lax. Nobody in the UFC is going to do a damn thing to either of these two. Cro Cop will expose anyone he faces in the UFC, and if you have seen Jackson’s fight against Chuck Liddell, you know that he is a real threat too. He beat the current UFC Light Heavyweight Champion (of whom I am a big fan) so badly that Chuck’s corner had to throw in the towel to save him. Even worse for Dana White, sitting at ringside, was that he and the UFC had a symbolic $250,000 bet against PRIDE that Liddell would take the tournament belt home.




Oops.


Chuck is too tough to give up, so they did the right thing. He was getting hurt. Maybe once all the UFC titles are taken by former PRIDE fighters, the fans will wake up to what they have been missing in PRIDE, but by then, it might be too late for them to enjoy it.

I wish these fans who have dissed on PRIDE for the past five years could have been watching Kazushi Sakuraba, Cro Cop, The Nogueira brothers, the Emelianenko brothers, Wanderlei Silva, Mauricio Shogun Rua, Mario Sperry, Quinton Jackson, Dan Henderson, Alistair Overeem, Sergei Kharitonov, Guy Mezger, Mark Coleman, Takanori Gomi, Mach Sakurai, Ricardo Arona, Hidehiko Yoshida, Pawel Nastula, Josh Barnett, Kevin Randleman, Kazuhiro Nakamura, Yuki Kondo, and Igor Vovchanchyn, among others. If you missed it, it was amazing. I know it is now on DVD, but watching it all unfold live, over time, was something special.

In spite of all the superior elements of PRIDE Fighting Championships, the pay-per-view events are still less than those of The UFC, at least where I am. I just can’t watch that much of the UFC pay-per-views, and certainly not for that cost. I don’t really need to see guys getting beat up in the full mount or falling into the rear-naked choke because they don’t know how to defend them. They just do not have the depth of talent to make an entire card of really compelling matches, as often as they put on these events. I want to see the best fighters and the best moves. All you have to do is search for PRIDE highlight clips online and you can see the difference for yourself.

All of this brings me to the main point for writing this. PRIDE is the best, but it is possibly on the verge of losing some of its potency. You have probably noticed that I have used the terms ‘was’ and ‘were’ frequently. The reason is, although PRIDE still has the dominant talent in the sport, they no longer have their big contract with Fuji TV. A scandal unfolded, and I will spare you the many details, but suffice it to say that there are allegations that the PRIDE FC parent organization was really being controlled by the Japanese Mafia, or Yakuza. As noted earlier, the Japanese do not care for dishonor, and the highly profitable TV contract was lost.

Before this scandal, nobody would leave PRIDE unless they were retiring or couldn’t compete. Now the organization might dry up from lack of money. Had this scandal not occurred, it was, in my opinion, only a matter of time until every UFC fan eventually saw PRIDE Fighting Championships, and realized that what they had seen previously was an inferior event.

Now, the UFC might actually come out on top, but at what cost? I feel this could set the sport back 10 years.


Sure, there are some top guys in the UFC, and some seriously class individuals as well. I also realize they have to promote it as they do, because they are in business to make money. My problem is, I LOVE THE SPORT, and it is crystal clear that the sport has already evolved onto a higher plane, and the UFC is simply not on that plane.

It kills me to think the sport might digress or devolve, with PRIDE’s amazing cast of characters fracturing and spreading to multiple smaller organizations where they can score big contracts and become big fish in little ponds. It will set this incredible new sport back years! PRIDE was the one-stop shop for the best of the best. With the sport blowing up, it would only have taken a bit more time before any and all MMA fans would have realized where the upper echelon resided – and that was in PRIDE.

If this scandal didn’t happen, if PRIDE had not lost this massive revenue stream from Fuji, they would have kept coming through with big cards, full of undeniably compelling fights and so much action that nothing would have been left of the UFC except for a minor league proving ground for future PRIDE fighters.

In short, without this scandal, the UFC would have had as much a chance of coming out on top of PRIDE as Tim Sylvia would have had against Fedor.

THE WORLD'S TOP FIGHTER and PRIDE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP!


Let's hope they find a way to keep it together, before they bleed more of their talent to lesser organizations.




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-CHALLENGE - Why PRIDE FC Is Superior To The UFC
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Last edited by Mr. Poopypants : 02-08-2007 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Donny is the worst poster evah lol

You put alot of work into this though. B+
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:46 PM   #3 (permalink)

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You like PRIDE!!



YeeeeeeHA!!!!

Here's a fucking cookie!!
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:47 PM   #4 (permalink)

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Nuthuggers like you are the reason Sherdog is beginning to fucking suck now and the main reason why I rarely post anymore.
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:47 PM   #5 (permalink)

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what a waste of time.
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UFC, sign Ricardo Arona!
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:48 PM   #6 (permalink)

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That is a very soothing color...
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:49 PM   #7 (permalink)

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I like pride, but man, you are trying a little too hard, kinda pathetic.
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:49 PM   #8 (permalink)

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How many minutes of your life did you waste writing that?
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Dude, you already posted an identical thread. Go get a fucking job.

BAN THE TROLL!!!!
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:51 PM   #10 (permalink)

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Heh, such a long ass post for a troll topic.
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