[CC3]

Ya i like the Dutch style of kickboxing. The incremental damage made by the lowkick combinations is very effective. I live in Australia so i know nothing of the way MT is trained in America.

Originally Posted by Kepler

This was discussed in a thread some times ago.

But it's true that dutch dominance over kickboxing is still growing up...Schilt, hari, spong, souwer : there is no contender to this global reign today, even if japan and Thailand do well in some weight classes.

Are we talking about Full Thai Rules? Modified Thai Rules? K-1 rules? Because kickboxing is a pretty broad term.

Besides Souwer - he's the only Dutch fighter i know of lately that have been beaten Thais and that was in k-1 rules. And also that Spong beat Kaoklai and another Thai from Wor Petchpun gym.

However, i don't hear too often of lighter weight top Dutch fighters beating top Thais fighters in thai rules. As close to a loss that i know of was the draw of Anuwat's fight at Slamm 4. And many say Anuwat should've won that fight.

K-1 rules, however, they do dominate. Also with the clinch training in Holland, do you learn the throws for the clinch like in Thailand or is mainly just used to hit with knee strikes?

[Kepler]

Originally Posted by Grijswaarde

I can proudly say that i was trained by Ramon Dekker.

He was also a bad mofo during training. He used to spar very friendly, untill you hit him, then he would beat you up.

So i can also proudly state that I punched Ramon Dekker in the face, and was beaten up by him for doing it multiple times

ah ah old champs are all the same ! either you friendly dance with them, either you dare to give a strong shot and this is the last one you'll give for a while.

[Grijswaarde]

Originally Posted by Kepler

yeah sparring sessions (quality, diversity and pace) is a crucial factor in a fighter evolution. It's often underestimated because people think all you need is hitting bags and shadow boxing to get stronger (thinking of rocky training)...

You could add that there is a lot of fighting events in holland, and all you need is 150miles to go as you told : thus, there is only a few inactivity for fighters.

Holland is definitely the western laboratory/university for kickboxing...

Exactly. A punching bag and shadowboxing can teach you how to throw a good punch, but it does not teach you how to avoid them.

I remember as a kid i used to train on a bag at home without sparring partners. Once i started training i realised all my crisp combinations where useless in most situations.

Countering is waaaaay more effective in my opinion. That's how guys like Liddell and Crocop (used to) destroy guys in MMA.

[curry]

Originally Posted by Grijswaarde

Americans seem to dislike kicking for some reason.

alot of my friends complain when the fights go to the ground cause they have no idea what is going on and everytime i have to remind them it is not boxing,or kickboxing,it is MIXED MARTIAL ARTS

[Jonatan]

I think there are a couple of reasons as to why the dutch are so succesfull. There are some more or less obvious like; good fighters make the sport popular-->more kids join--> more good fighters and the fact that a boxer in holland can get a fight much easier than in most other countries.

One thing that I belive to be overlooked however is that the dutch are less prone to try to emulate the training and technics of the thais. Most of the first generation trainers in holland where originally karatekas and viewed MT as a set of rules not as a way to train or fight.

This is not a knack on the thais per se but thais fight to win on points. That is ofcourse the smart thing to do when most boxers weigh under 63 kgs, and it is hard to hurt someone with your hands. The fact that the thais fight more often and from a younger age and without the same medical backup as most westerners speaks for the more decision oriented fighting.

If this is applied to a guy who weighs in at 75+ kgs the chance to finsh a fight is much greater and the dutch fight to get a KO much more than most other countries fighters.

[Chick]

Its no different than why are the Americans are great wrestlers.
Its basically all the kids do while they are young.
The Adult and kids talk about it and they analyze it and break it down.

Combine that with Quality Gyms in abundance you are gonna put out Fighters in Quantity. Plus People can afford to train there they are not a third world country

[Kepler]

CC3 : I mainly deal with K1 and kickboxing. I've never stated dutch are the best in all styles and weight classes. As you pointed out, average weight classes in MT is still an asian affair.

[Grappleganger]

The Dutch only dominate the weight classes the Thais dont produce fighters in

[Grijswaarde]

Originally Posted by CC3

Ya i like the Dutch style of kickboxing. The incremental damage made by the lowkick combinations is very effective. I live in Australia so i know nothing of the way MT is trained in America.



Are we talking about Full Thai Rules? Modified Thai Rules? K-1 rules? Because kickboxing is a pretty broad term.

Besides Souwer - he's the only Dutch fighter i know of lately that have been beaten Thais and that was in k-1 rules. And also that Spong beat Kaoklai and another Thai from Wor Petchpun gym.

However, i don't hear too often of lighter weight top Dutch fighters beating top Thais fighters in thai rules. As close to a loss that i know of was the draw of Anuwat's fight at Slamm 4. And many say Anuwat should've won that fight.

K-1 rules, however, they do dominate. Also with the clinch training in Holland, do you learn the throws for the clinch like in Thailand or is mainly just used to hit with knee strikes?

The reason that Dutch fighters are less represented in the lower weight classes is quite simple, Dutch people are the tallest in the world besides the Masai, so we have way more heavyweights than Thailand. Dekker is an exception. Could be wrong on this one though, but it seems logical. I see waaaay more HW-fights, also on amature level.

Regarding the rules, there are sooooo many varieties i can't even name them all. In Dutch MT, in most fights elbows are not allowed, or they fight with padding. I don't know if that is by law, I'm sorry.

Regarding training for the clinch, we learn how to throw, but the main focus is definately the knees. Get your arms inside, pull the head down, step backwards and knee using your whole body.

Finally, dutch referees tend to break up whenever a fight is inactive for 1 nanosecond, so an active clinch is very important.

[Grijswaarde]

Originally Posted by Grappleganger

The Dutch only dominate the weight classes the Thais dont produce fighters in

true. Also the opposite is true.