[strafer]

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

Dekker is not p4p best at all. If you want to get a non Thai who is much better research Danny Bille. Nuff Said

Dekker was very good. But his success was over hyped to over shadow people in his era who were actually better then him. Kinda like Britney Spears over Celine Dion.

Exactly. Dekkers is a legend because of his ferocious style. He was never known for great technique, speed, and ring smarts. He took a ton of punishment throughout his career and lost to fighters he really shouldn't have. He could barely hit sackmongkol in their fight, tactically dismantled by Danne Bille. Ramon was all power and heart. One of my favorites but was not p4p. As for Hoost, no heavyweight in kickboxing world I could even imagine being a p4p great. He was technically beat by a guy who moved up from cruiserweight in k-1 while he was bonified heavyweight at the time and was ko'ed by Sapp out of all people. If you are only disscussing non-thais as being p4p these guys are up there.

My pick p4p would have to be guys like Samart, Farid, Bille, Metee, Diesel noi and so on.

[deej]

Kinda hard to tell as they are in different weight dividions. Between the two, p4p I'd have to give it to Hoost. Dekker is retardedly explosive at times, but Hoost just has mad power behind everything he throws.

Dont take my word for it though, I'm just a 'white belt'

[Oyamakid]

Originally Posted by Jofeljoh!

Dekkers wasn't the best in his weightclass, allthough he probably was amongst them. In his prime he probably was pretty the most dominant in Thaiboxing, at least European/modified rules. On full Thai rules, especially in the beginning in his carreer he got 'outclassed' by the Thais... with that I mean they were just better on those rules, Dekkers wasn't used to them also... Especially the elbows and clinches bothered them, and those are ofcourse important aspect in Thailand. Dekkers speciality was his boxing, which doesn't score as much.

Many people claim that he was robbed several times in Thailand, being it home-decisions etc... those are not true, at least most of them. It was just the rules. Allthough there are fights which he completely dominated with his boxing combinations, dazzled his opponent several times, but still lost. Alltough that doesn't seem right, it actually is, according to the rules. Sucky, but that's the way it is

Besides all that, there always is serious betting going on in Thailand, so you'd better not screw with decisions, because you then screw with the bets and the people! You don't want pissed off people losing all their money so to speak

About Hoost, well, you can pretty much say he's the best in the heavyweights, along with Aerts. Aerts is a bit underrated with Hoost, but both are extreme good technicians, with knockout power in every available technique (at least in their primes). Both have highkick, lowkick, punch and knee-knockouts... Hoost ofcourse didn't get the Mr Perfect nickname for nothing, and allthough he has 4 K-1 GPs won, and Aerts 3, I just want to place them on the same level of skill and achievement. Aerts actually won from Hoost when I consider them both in their primes (98).

It's always hard to compare fighters pound for pound. In lighter weightclasses you generally have less KO's, but more fast, technical actions. In the heavyweights it's the other way around. That's why Dekkers has such an incredible record: over 200 fights, 175 wins, 90 KO's. That's an extreme accomplishment. Even today his sparringpartners say he hits almost like a heavyweight. Dekkers in his beginning of his carreer was a relentless fighter, later on he became more of a relaxed tactician in the ring, just chosing he chances. See his comeback fight against Ludwig for example, of his former farewell fight against Marino DeFlorin. Just calm, picking his (incredible powerful) shots.

I don't want to pick none of them as the best P4P, and besides that, you just forget there were so many other great(er) fighters in Dekkers weightclass before... (Sakmongkong, Jomhod, Jongsanan, and the list goes on and on...)

awesome post

[TheMessenger]

Originally Posted by strafer

Exactly. Dekkers is a legend because of his ferocious style. He was never known for great technique, speed, and ring smarts. He took a ton of punishment throughout his career and lost to fighters he really shouldn't have. He could barely hit sackmongkol in their fight, tactically dismantled by Danne Bille. Ramon was all power and heart. One of my favorites but was not p4p. As for Hoost, no heavyweight in kickboxing world I could even imagine being a p4p great. He was technically beat by a guy who moved up from cruiserweight in k-1 while he was bonified heavyweight at the time and was ko'ed by Sapp out of all people. If you are only disscussing non-thais as being p4p these guys are up there.

My pick p4p would have to be guys like Samart, Farid, Bille, Metee, Diesel noi and so on.

Hmmmm interesting points. I have to disagree with the Diesel Noi though and i'd replace him with Sagat on your list. Just due toDiesel noi being 6' 3" at 137 lbs. I mean who could beat anyone with those types of dimensions in that weight class. And Sagat also held titles in international rules and even Full Contact!! Proving that he was not just held with in the bounds of Muay Thai rules.

but back to Dekker he was basicly the Juggernaut of Muay thai. And we all know the attitude of the juggernaut. "nothing can stop the juggernaut" Just keeps getting blasted and throws bombs in the process looking to see which of the two are standing when the smoke clears.

[US Tomato Can]

P4P any where I'd have to say Samart is an outstanding choice. Not only for his accomplishments in Muay Thai but also because he proved to be a formidable boxer. He was lightining quick and had ridiculous power as well.

[BRASCO]

Originally Posted by bam36

hello to joo.

i am a regular in sherdog OT and formerly the MMA forums. i know a lot about MMA but my kickboxing knowledge is very limited. outside of the most recent K-1 events and those fighters who have crossed over i basically know shit.

my question is this:

the two fighters who i hear touted as the best kick boxers of all time are ernesto hoost and ramon dekkers. both are different weight classes so i would like to know who you peoples would rate as the best p4p. some background info on the two would be nice too.

please spare some time to educate a gnub.

thanks in advance

PS. once i have a few opinions and some info i will reward yous with an amusing present.

More info about Ramon Dekker on this link. Pres on the arrows to go to the next pages, it's about 8 pages;
http://www.fightingmaster.com/legends/dekkers/ramon.htm
__________________

[BRASCO]

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

Well being that this thread is ONLY supposed to be about Hoost and Dekkers and you opened the door i must point out.


Rob Kamen fought Rick Roufus twice and got his ass whooped.

Hoost fought Rick Roufus twice and knocked Rick out in the second fight.

Kiatsongrit fought Rob Kamen 3 times whooping him good in two of them.

Hoost fought Kiatsongrit and whooped him so horribly bad that i don't even think he would dream of rematching hoost.

Rob Kamen bulked up to heavyweight and got smacked down by Leuyer. Had no success at that weight in K-1 or anywhere else.

hoost bulked up to heavyweight and with the exception of Branco he whooped every top heavyweight for many years.

Compare the success in both of their careers and you will see that Hoost's shadow a cloud over kamen's big time.

Roufus was afraid to fight Kaman under Muay Thai rules.
Rick roufus fought Kaman under his own rules, and Roufus fought only Full-Contact kicboxing matches and that means NO Lowkicks.
Roufus is and was never good at giving lowkicks and had a horrible lowkick defense, we all know that Kaman his best weapons are lowkicks. For me that fight was completly b#lsh1t.

And don't forget to tel that KAMAN WHOOPED HOOST:
Check the link below to see the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbNqT...ch=rob%20kaman

Check the Highlight off Rob Kaman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vCm7...ch=rob%20kaman

[US Tomato Can]

True perhaps but careerwise Hoost is still better and that is without question.

How was it BS when Roufus KOed Kaman and didn't fight in rules he didn't understand? Unless Kaman was held at gun point to fight Roufus I cannot understand why it was BS because Kaman himself decided to take the fight.

[Makavelli]

Originally Posted by US Tomato Can

True perhaps but careerwise Hoost is still better and that is without question.

How was it BS when Roufus KOed Kaman and didn't fight in rules he didn't understand? Unless Kaman was held at gun point to fight Roufus I cannot understand why it was BS because Kaman himself decided to take the fight.

The main reason Kamon took that fight was money. Also he was past his prime when he fought roufus

[US Tomato Can]

All pros fight for money...Let the excuses continue.....