[BradChampagne]

well this is kinda hard to say right but in MMA there are some that work and then some that dont...good are but not limited to boxing, bjj, muay thai, judo, wrestling, greco roman wrestling...bad are but not limited to karate, tkd, akido, ninjitsu, and most other traditional arts....but listen to me say this, look at the best fighters out there many of them have non-mma style bases-
liddel-kempo, gsp-kyokushin karate, machida-kyokushin karate....and then there are many more but the idea is there are many traditional arts that dont transition well into mma but it doesnt mean they're not good bases for mma training.....what ever works

[BradChampagne]

does it matter really who trains what style it really depends on how they feel comfortable fighting...a wrestler might box ya, a puncher might might try to sub ya.....they do what the hell they think is best for them in a fight wether good or bad we choose our own styles each time if machida wasnt karate he would prob fight the same way just different style

[outcastkid]

does shotokan the art that machida trains in allows punches to the head??

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

Originally Posted by outcastkid

does shotokan the art that machida trains in allows punches to the head??

yes it does. no leg kicks knees or elbows though

[bigboywasim]

To the MMA nutters please do not compare a striking art to MMA. MMA is nothing without the arts that make it.

I am doing Muay Thai right now and I have also done full contact karate.

In my opinion Muay Boron (the tradional form of MT) is the best striking art for the street. This art includes all the moves from Muay Thai plus head butts, throat attacks, eye attacks, breaks, as well as throws. They are also familiar with weapons like the stick and knife.

I do believe MT is a little overrated and KK a little underrated.

KK has all the strikes in MT. It is just that they do not use the shin and they do have clinch but do not practice hours in it like the MT fighters. The greatest weakness that I believe it has is that no punches to the head are allowed.

The reason why such rules exist is because they fight without gloves. In the street no glove training is the best.

There are some things that MT does not have that kk has. These include some effective kicks like side kick, hook kick, axe kick. They also have good spinning moves including spinning low kicks.

[Valentin]

MT is better in the sreet than karate. One of the deadliest weapons of MT is lowkick - this is the only kick that is easy to do wearing jeans etc. Elbows are extreamly effective against a person who doesn't train elbow strikes - it's very short, invisible for him, sharp, and solid especially by heavyweights.

[Brandon_Vera]

Originally Posted by bigboywasim

KK has all the strikes in MT. It is just that they do not use the shin and they do have clinch but do not practice hours in it like the MT fighters. The greatest weakness that I believe it has is that no punches to the head are allowed.

Kyokushin also uses shin to kick, don't compare them if you haven't tried both of them. To Valentin... Kyokushin also does low kicks in fact they have variation of low kicks.


This argument is long stopped, it's the fighter not the art...

[jordan485]

hard one, but probably muay thai is overall better

i know now most will think kyokushin cos of machida, but dont forget machida is a world class kyukushin practioner, and is the first to adapt kyokushin into mma effectively

so dont base judgemtn on machida, cos hes a freak and has done something special for the ever evolving mma

[RJ Powell]

^lol @ Machida doing "kyokushin"

KK loses the punching game, plain and simple, they may train with punches to the head from time to time. But there is a difference between training to train, and training to not get your head punched off in the ring. MT has 4 basic punches, straight, hooking, uppercut, and overhand, each aimed at the body and head, and hell yes they are good at it.

IMO, the leg kicks in kyokushin are cruder and less well-placed than muay thai. Kyokushin also has alot of headkick KOs due to the fact that there are no punches to the head in competition, so the hands are rarely up there. They stand a bit more of a chance in the kicking game, but they are limited in what they can do. Muay Thai has almost every kick that Kyokushin has, they are just applied differently, take the side kick, this is used after a round kick misses, the spinning hook kick is rarely used in MT because it can easily be timed with a counter high kick or a cut kick that would take your legs out from right under you.

The only thing that KK has over MT is probably the axe kick, which is easily swept and neutralized, spin back kick(this is probably a karate guy's best bet against an MT guy or a regular kickboxer, they dont see it often), its not easy to end a fight with one though. They have their flexible, quicker high kick, but that would be picked off, and they would be punished thai style for even bothering to throw it without power. The preferred defense in Muay Thai is direct blocking with the hard parts of the body to punish the opponent. Some MT matches can look like real tough guy contests, sometimes i like it, sometimes i would prefer more evasion and footwork like a dutch kickboxer.

Getting a clean headkick KO in a Muay Thai match is a much bigger achievement than pulling one off in a KO karate match.

Elbows are the deal breaker here.

MT trains elbows all the time, and not to the air either, with thai pads, attack & defense drills, and finally live in the ring. They aim for targets methodically, they throw them with baaaaad intentions. I see a KK guy getting his face sliced to shreds against this type of thing. KK has elbows also, but they rarely practice actively attacking and defending them with eachother, it's more of an afterthought and part of Kihon and Kata.

I will give kyokushin SOME credit for pure toughness and work ethic, but MT has the exact same thing, and often for a longer period of time, from a younger age. They fucking LIVE in their training camps.

Kyokushin loses in the knees department also. Nakmuays are masters in the clinch, they would have the KK guys powerless and toss them around like ragdolls. Knees would strike them every where from thighs to head, all from the clinch. It's not easy to escape one you are drawn into it. They do 2 hours of neck wrestling and knees every day, does KK do that? Not from my experience with the art.

[Brandon_Vera]

Originally Posted by jordan485

hard one, but probably muay thai is overall better

i know now most will think kyokushin cos of machida, but dont forget machida is a world class kyukushin practioner, and is the first to adapt kyokushin into mma effectively

so dont base judgemtn on machida, cos hes a freak and has done something special for the ever evolving mma

Machida doing KK? that's the real deal.. wahahhahahaha


I do Kudo and Kyokushin, yeah that's the truth KK fighters have a hard time in the clinch but my kudo training (offshots from kyokushin) help me a lot from clinching and knees and hip takedowns (judo style). The only difference is we also use our gi for clinching unlike MT pure neck wrestling without a gi.