[OZ!]

Originally Posted by Jumpingknees

So true man....I have been waiting for someone to say that. GSP's stand-up is NOT as good as everyone think's it is. That jumpy karate stance he sometimes uses often gets him into trouble.

Muay thai is the best standing art........sorry, but it's true. I trained karate at a Mc Dogo, then trained Kung Fu from a bona fide master. I then found Muay thai and promptly unlearned all the bullshit I was previously taught. I truly think certain Tae Kwon Do techniques can be effective but by and large Muay thai is a much more complete, non-biased, and effective game.

Muay thai is not the best stand up art. C'mon dude, that's just foolish. They are just the last ones to keep it unmolested by foreigners to the greatest extent. European and American MT guys are a joke, they're just bad KBoxers with knees and minimal elbows. I am sorry you had to learn at a McDojo, and I am sorry you had to buy into a "Kung Fu" master's BS but there are a lot of excellent fighters that don't do MT and are just fine(Andy Hug, Aerts, etc.) Just because you throw knees doesn't make it Thai. My dad was teaching knees and elbows in TKD back in 1973.

As for GSP's bouncing stance, that's not a kyokushin thing. That's more of a crap-kwon-do thing, he is a much better wrestler than a striker(that's why BJ did so well)

[PureBreed]

If you think they're both effective, then train both. I personally only think that MT is effective, so I train that with boxing. Thats just my opinion but this argument could go on forever between which is better

[OZ!]

Originally Posted by IRENICUS

I've done KK for about two years. I was pretty advanced and under KK rules I would've beat most of the guys that did 2 years in any other form of karate. However, I don't know if you are aware that in KK we don't use gloves and we don't punch to the head.
I tried fighting with the same person under KK rules and under their rules(which allowed punches to the head). I was getting beat in their rules, not because of the clinch, which didn't bother me that much(btw, we use knees too). Because of the punches to the head. Your body is strong, your legs are used to being low kicked.
I wasn't used to punching their heads, wasn't used to wearing gloves(they take away some of your speed especially the big boxing gloves). Also I wasn't defending well to their punching to the head and I was eating lots of them. I guess if you train a lot with punches to the head you could adjust after a while.
Remember Filho from K1 did KK and his body and legs were not affected by hits, but he had trouble being punched in the face(Hunt, Lebanner).

So take it from a KK practitioner:a MTT guy will beat a KK guy in rules that allow punching to the head. No doubt about it. A boxing guy with decent resistance to low kicks will beat a KK guy as well.

I can kind of understand your views but I never understood the hinderance. To me(I train Enshin) I'm not limiting my training or my sparring or my fighting. All I see when I fight by a set of rules is a weapon being taken away. When I did TKD(and trust me, my TKD is the equivalent of most people's "best striking" on roids, thank god for a teacher and not a sell out) I learned that my hands were used to set up my kicks and visa versa so when I began learning Enshin my new handicap was that I couldn't hit to the face and that I couldn't do double sided throws or grabs(you may only grab one side in comp). But when I spar or train I work to the head etc. Not knowing how to deal with the head shots is a matter of not training realistically and I find GOOD schools(don't get me wrong, there are plenty of bad) all the time with great students that aren't getting the most out of the training because the teacher is leaving stuff out for what is important to their "sport". So I understand what you are saying but it has alot more to do with their training mentality. I would say that most MT guys and most Kyokushin guys would lose a fight to a good Krav guy(and damn do I hate those guys) just because of the mentality they train and the tenacity which overcomes their often petty skills and knowledge. Its all how you train, not the art.

[SyuYuKai]

Originally Posted by yodaman

Machida is writing a book called "Karate for MMA," for those of you denying his Shotokan roots.

)

Cool, i'll have to look out for that.

[RJ Powell]

Originally Posted by OZ!

Muay thai is not the best stand up art. C'mon dude, that's just foolish. They are just the last ones to keep it unmolested by foreigners to the greatest extent. European and American MT guys are a joke, they're just bad KBoxers with knees and minimal elbows. I am sorry you had to learn at a McDojo, and I am sorry you had to buy into a "Kung Fu" master's BS but there are a lot of excellent fighters that don't do MT and are just fine(Andy Hug, Aerts, etc.) Just because you throw knees doesn't make it Thai. My dad was teaching knees and elbows in TKD back in 1973.

As for GSP's bouncing stance, that's not a kyokushin thing. That's more of a crap-kwon-do thing, he is a much better wrestler than a striker(that's why BJ did so well)

Great job bashing another style AND a whole category of fighters just to get your point across. European MT fighters a joke? I'm just gonna pretend you weren't serious when you said this.

BTW, Dutch Kickboxing has just as much Muay Thai influence as it does Boxing and Kyokushin. Stop trying to pigeonhole them into the karate category, go read up on the history of kickboxing in Holland before you post. The class traditions and customs are based on Kyokushin and even a small amount of the striking. Everything else is a very nice blend of boxing and muay thai.

As someone who has attained his 1st Dan in Kyokushin and is actively training & competing Muay thai, i scornfully wipe my e-ass with your abortion of a post. god.

[OwMyArm]

Originally Posted by Croatia_K1

KYoukushi karate is gay along with any other traditional martial art.


GSP doesnt use karate, he uses wrestling

MAchida does use it and is getting decision wins because of his natrually fast reflexes so hes pretty elusive.. he doesnt knock people out

Semmy isnt technically all he is cracked up to be. IF he was a normal sized HW.. like 6'2 or something, he would be FUCK ALL

...you have K1 in your display name but you call karate gay? weird

[SyuYuKai]

Originally Posted by Ken's Sideburns

i honestly believe a local mma fighter or even a local bjj practitioner who's at least a brown belt or purple belt can beat a karate, kung fu, kyo kushin, TKD, or any traditional stand up martial artist easily. even if the traditional martial artists have been training for years. i train mma and bjj for about a year and i think that if i fought those traditional practitioners in an mma fight AND if they're not well rounded and are one dimentional, i would easily beat them.

So essentially what you are saying is a variety of fighting styles will overcome a single fighting style. Thank you Captain Obvious

[Brandon_Vera]

Alright MMA keep saying MMA. That's why it's called MMA. Read it idiot ! Mixed Martial Art. it's a mixture of different martial arts to perform the best technique. But I can say that I have never seen any MMA fighter whos striking is as best as any other k-1 fighters. They just take their opponent down and GNP or sub them. that's it. To those saying that anuwat can beat ryu. We have never seen them fight.. KK can beat MT in KK rules and MT can beat KK under MT rules or vice versa. It just depends on the training and conditioning. END OF THREAD !!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

Originally Posted by Wiseyoda

Came from the same place dude, Shotokan is just an off spin of it.

I could be wrong but i heard that Mas Oyama actually trained with Gichin Funokoshi(the founder of shotokan) not the other way around

[theblackknight]

Originally Posted by OZ!

and trust me, my TKD is the equivalent of most people's "best striking" on roids

I would say that most MT guys and most Kyokushin guys would lose a fight to a good Krav guy(and damn do I hate those guys) just because of the mentality they train and the tenacity which overcomes their often petty skills and knowledge. Its all how you train, not the art.

uh....some pretty bold statements there buddy, what do you mean by the average person? the average trainee/fighter? what have you accomplished?

Most Muay Thai and Kyokyshin guys who arent coming out of a McDojo are much tougher than Krav Maga guys any day you know why? they actually compete (and spar rather than just drilling things all day, I don't care how intense it looked to you on the discovery channel)...bottom line, the most effective fighting techniques against an unarmed opponent are developed through competition.