[MysticNinjaJay]

I'm a casual fan of combat sports. I've studied and trained in various Martial Arts. But I watch for entertainment. I'm not a fighter and I don't pay much attention to rank. I support the fighters with the most appealing personalities and fighting styles to me. One of those fighters is Cung Le. The guy is a bad ass. But he gets so much hate on this board and the #1 critcism is that he hasn't fought anyone worth mentioning.

I don't follow K-1 and Kickboxing very closely and don't know much about San Shou ranks. All I know is from what I've read online. It's my understanding that after a lucrative amateur career in which he won 3 San Shou bronze medals, competing in the World Tournaments, Cung Le won the 1998 Shidokan tournament and then decided to compete in San Shou professionally, fighting locally on Strikeforce kickboxing cards that were broadcast on ESPN. He beat Shonie Carter to earn a San Shou World title which he defended for the duration of his career including 3 K-1 Super fights. After that he made the transition to MMA at the suggestion of his trainer Javier Mendez.

What I don't understand is how Cung got this reputation as an overrated and protected fighter. Who challenged him that he dodged? Last time I checked he was undersized for the K-1 Grand Prix and too big for MAX. I keep hearing people say he never fought Chinese Sanda competition (I hear he challenged Liu Hailong but his team backed out) or that he had oppurtunities to fight kickboxers under K-1 rules and never attempted. What's interesting to me is that I don't think Cung has ever fought a traditional kickboxing match in his Pro career. Shidokan, San Shou and MMA have very different rules that seem to appeal to him.

What I want with this thread if for Cung Le critics to simply give us all a bit more insight into Cung's career and why they criticize it. Sources for claims are appreciated.

This is what Cung thinks of his critics:


Cung Le Hand Picked Fights

[SamuraiBlack]

I've been a fan of Cung Le's since those ISKA shows on ESPN in the 90's that you mentioned, as well as all of the other good Northern California fighters of that era, i.e. all of the great Fairtex fighters then, Jongsanan, Alex Gong, Bunkerd, Tsutsui et cetera.

The only criticism that I ever had for Cung's fights was that his competition always seemed so sub-par compared to him (but he was fighting the best guys available). He would literally just run through guys and make them look really foolish, guys that looked really impressive in their other fights. Plus a lot of his opponents in San Shou were guys that specialized in other forms of striking like Muay Thai/Oriental rules kickboxing/full contact kickboxing. I think that he was just that good in San Shou, he beat everyone so they started bringing in champs/contenders in other striking disciplines, but they would just get embarrassed.

Maybe people assumed that he was fighting cans because he couldn't be touched in San Shou, he sure made it look that way. The truth is that he was the best in San Shou, he just ran out of fools to beat I guess.

Cung Le is a really cool guy too, I met him a couple of times, I even fought in a smoker at one of his schools. He was giving me advice and was very encouraging, he's very soft spoken, but a killer in the ring.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by SamuraiBlack

I've been a fan of Cung Le's since those ISKA shows on ESPN in the 90's that you mentioned, as well as all of the other good Northern California fighters of that era, i.e. all of the great Fairtex fighters then, Jongsanan, Alex Gong, Bunkerd, Tsutsui et cetera.

The only criticism that I ever had for Cung's fights was that his competition always seemed so sub-par compared to him (but he was fighting the best guys available). He would literally just run through guys and make them look really foolish, guys that looked really impressive in their other fights. Plus a lot of his opponents in San Shou were guys that specialized in other forms of striking like Muay Thai/Oriental rules kickboxing/full contact kickboxing. I think that he was just that good in San Shou, he beat everyone so they started bringing in champs/contenders in other striking disciplines, but they would just get embarrassed.

Maybe people assumed that he was fighting cans because he couldn't be touched in San Shou, he sure made it look that way. The truth is that he was the best in San Shou, he just ran out of fools to beat I guess.

Cung Le is a really cool guy too, I met him a couple of times, I even fought in a smoker at one of his schools. He was giving me advice and was very encouraging, he's very soft spoken, but a killer in the ring.

Thanks for the insight. This is what I have always suspected. He was a big fish in a small pond. San Shou is not well-established in America so it comes as no surprise that there weren't too many fighters, or anyone for that matter that were on his level as a Pro.

I can understand wanting to see him challenged but he shouldn't be looked down on so harshly if he fought the best San Shou fighters in the world as an amateur and won a Shidokan tournament.

I've heard people express disappointment that he didn't challenge himself when under K-1 contract. For those people who say that, who was there at his weight to fight? Also considering that Cung's background thus far had not been traditional kickboxing his skills would be limited under those rules. In MMA the rules and skillset expand beyond his expertise so there is a learning curve for him to overcome and greater challenges.

[Jake Martin]

I'd say a lot of the haters are getting shut up now that he is doing pretty well in MMA, since the talent pool is definitely deeper in that sport.

In my opinion, he's an extremely gifted athlete who would have done equally well if he had started as a K-1 rules fighter, or a point-sparrer, or even a soccer player.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Shotokan777

I'd say a lot of the haters are getting shut up now that he is doing pretty well in MMA, since the talent pool is definitely deeper in that sport.

In my opinion, he's an extremely gifted athlete who would have done equally well if he had started as a K-1 rules fighter, or a point-sparrer, or even a soccer player.

He is a great athelete. Incidentally, Cung competed in Tae Kwon Do tournaments prior to San Shou and became a champion in point-sparring.


1996 Continuous Sparring World Champion
USA International World Championships
Las Vegas, NV

[ldogg]

Originally Posted by Shotokan777

I'd say a lot of the haters are getting shut up now that he is doing pretty well in MMA, since the talent pool is definitely deeper in that sport.

In my opinion, he's an extremely gifted athlete who would have done equally well if he had started as a K-1 rules fighter, or a point-sparrer, or even a soccer player.

WELL SAID

[almightyME]

Cung Le kicks ass. Would love to see CL vs AS.

[theblackknight]

I think there were some blatant haters, and some people who said "I don't feel hes a good enough striker to beat the best strikers in the world, and I don't feel hes good enough all around to make it in mixed martial arts" I think some of his critics had legit points but got carried away, I don't think Cung Le could outstrike the best muay thai or k-1 fighter in the world, but why should he be expected to? (this was the most dumbest argument people had, they seemed to think he should be able to outstrike the worlds best and be well rounded enough to beat the best in MMA, its kind of like people saying Floyd Mayweather should be able to beat BJ Penn, or Fedor should be able to outbox Klitschko, it doesnt make sense)
yes his opponents werent very impressive (he won his IKF Pro LHW belt from Shonie Carter lol), but that was not his fault, it was the state of Pro San Shou and the promotion, and his he couldnt make it in MMA critics...well he shut them up real good lol.
I really enjoyed his old San Shou matches (even though he was embarassing his opponents, it was still a treat to watch, he brought out every trick in the bag!), and I'm glad he was able to make the transition to MMA well, but I had my doubts like everyone else (even his fans didnt know how he would do in MMA).
I think the fans and haters alike agreed on one thing though: Cung Le was not challenging himself in San Shou, and this is where the hating started. Now that he has proven himself in MMA, alot of these critics have been silenced, and now the question is how would he fare against the best in the world!

[ldogg]

I cant wait for CUNGS next fight

[Razor Bump]

I'd say.... why be critical of it now.... he's just beaten Frank Shamrock and is talking Anderson Silva. He's the most accomplished and remembered from that art form and style. Cung is a legend now. He's pushing San Shou to new heights and not even competing in the style anymore. Awesome.