Carnage vs Spong SPOILER

[BellyKick]

All right I re-reviewed this fight. Carnage had it won after he dropped Spong cold. Corbett had a tidy KO right there and then in the heat of the moment he jumped on Spong when he shouldn't have. After rewatching I see virtually no way he could have misinterpreted the wave off. Some of the reffing was shit. But my opinion has shifted on this after re-viewing the fight with audio completely off.

Carnage either bonafidly hates Spong or thinks the rules concession is BS ( I do too) or was just nervous or something but he should not have jumped all over Spong after the wave off. He had the win in the bag. Carnage cost himself a very definitive win.

Instead WMC was actually reasonably soft about handing down a NC. They could very easily have handed out a DQ and in my opinion they'd be right.

All that being said credit must be given to Corbett for taking a modified rules bout and agreeing Spong's request at all. This was supposed to be Muay Thai. WMC is really doing nothing for their own integrity.

Now to the outside events. Schiavello and Castagni are flat-out horrible disgraces to the sport period. No matter how they felt one way or the other you make International Muay Thai look stupid by challenging various people to a fight at your gym. It's not enough we have to hear your constant biased rants as commentary. My money would have been Carbin winning that one pretty tidily.

[tru3f4n]

Schiavello os bias for sure but he wasn't going over board like Castagni was.

[Ham_Roll]

Originally Posted by BellyKick

All right I re-reviewed this fight. Carnage had it won after he dropped Spong cold. Corbett had a tidy KO right there and then in the heat of the moment he jumped on Spong when he shouldn't have. After rewatching I see virtually no way he could have misinterpreted the wave off. Some of the reffing was shit. But my opinion has shifted on this after re-viewing the fight with audio completely off.

Carnage either bonafidly hates Spong or thinks the rules concession is BS ( I do too) or was just nervous or something but he should not have jumped all over Spong after the wave off. He had the win in the bag. Carnage cost himself a very definitive win.

Instead WMC was actually reasonably soft about handing down a NC. They could very easily have handed out a DQ and in my opinion they'd be right.

All that being said credit must be given to Corbett for taking a modified rules bout and agreeing Spong's request at all. This was supposed to be Muay Thai. WMC is really doing nothing for their own integrity.

Now to the outside events. Schiavello and Castagni are flat-out horrible disgraces to the sport period. No matter how they felt one way or the other you make International Muay Thai look stupid by challenging various people to a fight at your gym. It's not enough we have to hear your constant biased rants as commentary. My money would have been Carbin winning that one pretty tidily.

So your saying Carnage knew the fight was over when he went after Spong again. That doesn't make sense if he wanted to attack him why not continue after the bell in each round? Why not hit him again when he dropped Spong eg Hari?

Watch the tape and see the ref step away from inbetween the fighters and then wave in a horizontal motion.
Now the vast majority of refs stay between the fighters and wave verticaly above there heads. From Carnages postion it is very understable to think he though the ref was motioning them together.
If ref stays between the fighters which is what he is ment to do this is avoided, but what you are implying is that even if the ref stayed between the fighters and waved the fight off with his hands above his head Carnage would of still gone after Spong.

[BellyKick]

Originally Posted by Ham_Roll

So your saying Carnage knew the fight was over when he went after Spong again. That doesn't make sense if he wanted to attack him why not continue after the bell in each round? Why not hit him again when he dropped Spong eg Hari?

Just my opinion I think it was in the heat of moment and to my eyes Carnage was pissed off. He completely had the win sealed in my eyes at that moment.

Watch the tape and see the ref step away from inbetween the fighters and then wave in a horizontal motion.

Horizontally has always been the sign of the fight is over and it's done. The ref was probably not as demonstrative as he could have been may be but from my angle it was definitively clear.

If ref stays between the fighters which is what he is ment to do this is avoided, but what you are implying is that even if the ref stayed between the fighters and waved the fight off with his hands above his head Carnage would of still gone after Spong.

No I wouldn't go that far. Had the ref remained in position OR knelt down to look over spong immediately I do believe Corbett would have backed off immediately. In any scenario he did KO Spong clean.

[Ham_Roll]

Originally Posted by BellyKick

Just my opinion I think it was in the heat of moment and to my eyes Carnage was pissed off. He completely had the win sealed in my eyes at that moment.


Horizontally has always been the sign of the fight is over and it's done. The ref was probably not as demonstrative as he could have been may be but from my angle it was definitively clear.



No I wouldn't go that far. Had the ref remained in position OR knelt down to look over spong immediately I do believe Corbett would have backed off immediately. In any scenario he did KO Spong clean.

Refs mainly wave fights off vertically hands above head, this ref waved like he was calling a baseball runner safe.
This how the ref is supposed to do it
It is clear everybody understands.


But this what the ref did in the Carnage Spong fight



Now if you are to the left of the ref and iam to the right and by some miracle you actually drop me, i stand up and you see the ref step back and then you see his hands go from where this Umpire's are in this picture and then you see him start to bring both hands together, would you not interrupt that as continue especially as you want to jump on your oppoenent as quick as possible.

[wormed]

BellyKick, I think it boils down to the 'angle we see.' We obviously see the camera angle, whereas we don't actually see what Corbett sees from his vision. It could very well be that the only thing he could see was half turned referee with his back towards him, a lowered wave, which peripherally, he could've interpreted as a resumption of the fight.

The rules definitely do state that Corbett shouldn't get the win, and even a DQ, but like I mentioned on K-1fans, I think those rules were written under the assumption the referee was following proper protocols for ending the fight.

[hyatt]

Originally Posted by Kaminoko

He missed a down in the first round and in the second, when carnage went down, and the ref asked him to come but Carnage did not respond and went to his corner.If this happened to another ref like a ref from k1, The fight is OVER.

but hey this does not mean that 1fault in favor of spong and 1 fault in favor of carnage means a NC. After looking good, I saw that Carnage was focusing only on Spong and might have only seen 1 arm of the ref, thinking he can attack.

I'm 100% sure the wmc will overturn the nc to a TKO win.

Great point, mate. 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'm really impressed with Spong as a fighter. To actually see him on a live broadcast is different to watching crappy You-Tube vids. He is a a talented man and i'd like to see him take a Thai rules fight with Carnage as i'm sure he wouldn't underestimate as he appeared to this time. Loved the fight, hate the result.

[hyatt]

Best part is that no one is debating the fact that Spong got his arse handed to him. The refereeing etc is the only sticking point here.

As an Aussie, I have to say that Schiavello and Castagnini were an embarassment. Australia's fighters don't need such biased commentary to support them, their actions are more than enough.

[martijn]

Someone post that freakin fight already, I've searched every day!

[noizer]

Originally Posted by MSieur Le Bossu

Carnage should definitely demand full Thai rules, and nothing else, if/when a rematch is offered. After all, he acquiesced to Spong's management to get the original fight going.

The referee isn't American, although he has lived in America for a while. It's Paulo Tocha, who has been in a few Van Damme movies (Most would remember him as the muay thai stylist, "Paco", in Bloodsport).

WOW paco from bloodsport. no kidding. i loved paco in bloodsport. a true badass