Best Pound4Pound Muay Thai/Kickboxer Of All Time (Not In Order))

[Spoonking]

Originally Posted by Producer1

We are way off-topic here.

Spoonking, yes, it might be who you've beaten, but in that case Sophea has beaten Chantha, Viva and Kosal in recent times. If you're going to say that about the Khmers then you have to say it about the Thais in the OP as well. I threw stats around because they were thrown around by the Thread Starter in the OP as proof of how good fighters were and why they were deserving of the title "best p4p Muay Thai boxer".

And as for cop outs: I was only talking about why we can't put Thais in the ring in Phnom Penh to settle once and for all "who's better". I was asked a question and I gave the answer and that has only to do with kickboxing.

LOL, I apply the same standards to the Thais... The guys mentioned in this thread have very good C.Vs.

Is beating Chantha or Kosal meant to put him on a comparable level to Parr? If so that is laughable. You do realise both these guys have been beaten on several occassions by relatively inexperienced lighter guys in Australia.

[Payak]

the reason khmers talk about it and we don't in thailand is simple.
our nations reputation as the best muay thai fighters bothers the khmer people.

[Payak]

Apidej also broke alot more then one arm,your forgetting the legs he also broke.

[Producer1]

No, Payak. I am not forgetting anything. I have made it clear multiple times that I am quoting the OP.

I don't give a shit why you think the Thais don't talk about it and the Khmers do. You are not in Cambodia and haven't spoken to Cambodian Khmers about it.

It happens to be fact worldwide that large nations never talk about the issues that small neighbours talk about. Australians never talk about the things that New Zealanders don't like about Australia/Australians and their relationship. Americans don't care about what the Canadians have to say.

Within Australia Victorians don't talk about the things that piss off South Australians and New South Welshmen don't talk about the things that piss off Victorians.

The larger your state or nation the less you care/think about what your small neighbours think. You're too busy with your own problems.

This is just human nature.

Once again: I was asked a question and I gave the answer. It doesn't matter how a bunch of foreigners decide to spin it, I quoted the official answer. It is what it is.

So here's the Khmer spin on your spin: if the Thais were so secure in their knowledge of being the best in the world they would be prepared to change the name of kickboxing at the SEA Games to Sovanna Phum and compete with the Khmers in a neutral venue.

Spoonking, you really are having fun finding new avenues, aren't you? I know Chantha has lost in Australia. I know Kosal has lost in Australia. We've spoken before about these fights. I never said what it was and wasn't supposed to do. I have responded directly to each of your assertions and you keep finding another one to follow on with. I didn't begin this with an intention of saying Thun Sophea was p4p the best in the world. I began it with an intention of saying there are other kickboxers who have achieved these feats, those other kickboxers are utterly unknown/unrated, their feats may or may not warrant further attention, but don't automatically assume a Thai is the greatest because he has a record as long as your arm. So do the Khmers. So there is more to it than merely record.

Now you're quoting my original argument back to me each time I put arguments identical to the OP up. So, my point is made? Yes? That there is more to it than record. That there is more to it that one or two spectacular moves.

Auth Puthang recently lost on points in Australia for the very reason he wasn't going for the KO. This is a systemic problem the Khmers have when they fight overseas. It seems only Bird Kamm goes for the KO EVERY time he fights. He's as exciting as Hell to watch, but if he keeps fighting like that in Cambodia he's going to run out of opponents very soon. But at least when he travels he is already thinking of the KO. The rest of them are not. This is a problem. They don't understand that taking paid holidays in Australia and cruising from fight to fight is affecting their reputations. They don't think about their reputations outside Cambodia.

Chantha's KO by KO Keough also didn't help matters much.

Hyatt, the temple issue is 1 year old. The ban on Thais in the PP ring is over 10 years old. It says Muay Thai/Kickboxers in the OP. Guess what? Kun Khmer is kickboxing and the style, as we have been discussing here, is identical to Muay Thai. So, yes, the Khmers do deserve to be on the list if they are good enough. The point is whether or not they are good enough. And I didn't come here to say they were. I made a simple point about stats.

And yes, if a Kung Fu fighter had fought in numerous Karate tournaments and beaten many Karatekas using Karate, he would deserve to be on such a list. But that is different, because your analogy is false.

There is no difference between Kun Khmer and Muay Thai. There are very minor rule differences, such as the fact that in Cambodia you can hold your opponent's leg and push him all the way across the ring.

You are suggesting that the alphabet soup of Queensbury Rules boxing organisations should produce p4p rankings that do not include boxers from outside their own organisations. Boxing p4p lists include boxers from all the sanctioning bodies, IBF, WBC etc

Spoonking, the biggest problem Cambodian kickboxing faces is money. Without money you cannot get recognition and without recognition you cannot get money.

No Cambodian promoter can afford to bring the JWPs and Preachers of this world to Cambodia. No Australian promoter with the money to put the JWPs and Preachers in the ring is bringing Cambodians to face them.

Without world-class opponents how do you rate yourself against the rest of the world? How do you develop to world class?

We are doing what we can to develop Cambodian kickboxing (from a corporate point of view that is naturally secondary to putting on a good show and getting a big audience), but we are a very small tv station by international standards, there is a very limited amount we can achieve alone.

[Payak]

So here's the Khmer spin on your spin: if the Thais were so secure in their knowledge of being the best in the world they would be prepared to change the name of kickboxing at the SEA Games to Sovanna Phum and compete with the Khmers in a neutral venue.

this above comment borders on the insane,you ever listen to yourself producer1.
change the name,thats hilarious.
khmers banned us from fighting in there country,why is that.
they are welcome to fight in our country.
if khmers want there respect,fine,get out there and earn by beating some non khmer fighters.

[Spoonking]

Originally Posted by Producer1

Spoonking, the biggest problem Cambodian kickboxing faces is money. Without money you cannot get recognition and without recognition you cannot get money.

No Cambodian promoter can afford to bring the JWPs and Preachers of this world to Cambodia. No Australian promoter with the money to put the JWPs and Preachers in the ring is bringing Cambodians to face them.

Without world-class opponents how do you rate yourself against the rest of the world? How do you develop to world class?

Hogwash. Don't act as if Khmer fighters don't fight regularly o/s. If they consistently beat the opposition served up to them, I can guarantee that they would be given opportunities to fight world class opposition. Unfortunatley so far they have fallen short.
Why would you put guys that have lost to Keogh, Harvey, Street, Olsen etc. against world class opposition?

[Producer1]

Payak, I sound no more insane than you do saying that something isn't an issue in Cambodia because Thais don't talk about it in Thailand.

"beat non-Khmer fighters"? That happened last week. Two were beaten. In August last year three were beaten. In April last year four were beaten.

Stupid thing to say. Non-Khmers get beaten regularly in Cambodia. The point Spoonking and I are talking about is the level of those non-Khmer fighters.

Changing the name would be hilarious? Why? The SEA Games belong to the Olympic Committees of the ASEAN nations. Not Thailand. As three of those nations have a virtually identical sport called Tomoi, Kun Khmer and Muay Thai in each nation and a fourth has a fairly similar sport called Lethwei why would it be insane to choose a compromise name for the sport? Do you know how nationalist, petty and ignorant you sound?

The fact is the Thais refused to compromise on the name because they have an insane dream about getting Muay Thai into the olympics the way amateur boxing and points Tae Kwon Do are in the olympics and they are absolutely determined that when (not "if" in their minds) kickboxing does become an Olympic sport it will be called Muay Thai.

Perhaps you don't read that well at all. I've already stated why the Cambodian authorities banned Thai nationals from fighting professionally in Cambodia.

Spoonking, hogwash? If you say so. You're the great authority on all things Khmer boxing, what would I know about it? It may be that if they won regularly they'd be getting into better promotions than Ancient Battle. It could be that the reason they aren't winning regularly overseas is exactly the reason I gave about local ring ettiquette.

And the loss to Keough was for Oriental Rules, not MT.

As for fighting regularly overseas. Name them. Let's see, Kosal and Auth travel regularly, Chantha used to. Seiha and Sophan have been once or twice. Bird Kamm has been to France and Belgium, as has Somkahn and Sophea. Oh, and the big man was tempted south a couple of times last year when he should have just admitted he was retired and stayed out of the ring. So the reality is Kosal, Auth and Eh have travelled "regularly" to fight o/s in the last two years. And I haven't been talking about any of them.

But it certainly isn't hogwash when I say local promoters don't have the money. On that score I think it's possible I might know better than you do.

[Payak]

i agree that khmer fighters are good fighters and have big hearts,and limited opportunity,
thailand has better camps and promoters which is a big plus for us.
in my opinion the arts are so similar that it comes down to the individual fighter.
I'm sure if the khmer fighters had the opportunity's and number of camps we have in thailand they would be far more successful.
after all a thai is not physically superior to a khmer.
As for the asean games,all host countries of all games like to promote there own arts.
thats how pankration found its way into the olympics.
if we are to host the games,why would we add our national sport and then change the name to suit our neighbors,and what would we change it to.
what name would please all our neighbors,would be a long ass name.
and the bottom line is,we call it muay thai,that name is very important to us, when the khmers host the games they can call it what they want.
if we were to call it anything other then muay thai,most people would not even know what it is.

[cali_chute_boxe]

Payak cow has intellect. I'm glad to see others with thoughts versus the MMA side of sherdog where 90% of the idiots live.

[Spoonking]

Originally Posted by Payak

i agree that khmer fighters are good fighters and have big hearts,and limited opportunity,
thailand has better camps and promoters which is a big plus for us.
in my opinion the arts are so similar that it comes down to the individual fighter.
I'm sure if the khmer fighters had the opportunity's and number of camps we have in thailand they would be far more successful.
after all a thai is not physically superior to a khmer.
.

Completely agree. It really is an issue of economics/participation rate. I'm sure that in time, as more gyms pop up and Khmer fighters continue to fight o/s. That someone will have the talent to go all the way. After all with the amount of people participating it's only a matter of time. Unfortunatley, nobody is quite at that level atm.