Why do people "Hate" on Judo?

[QuaWee]

i feel in love with Judo after I saw Royce vs Yoshida

[LegendaryBrolly]

Originally Posted by Alzi_

Agreed. Some of the Judo sherdoggers take nuthuggery to a whole new level *cough* Q Mystic *cough*. I do believe that Judo has a place in MMA but Judokas need to adapt the sport to MMA because right now Judo is geared towards Olympic competition only. Karo Parisyan is the only guy who has really evolved the sport. I also think Judokas need to supplement their subgame with BJJ or Sambo because Judo groundwork is pretty weak to say the least.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kH2sJKQsmco

[gattaca]

People hate on Judo because it's affective in MMA but is not commonly seen as "Masculine". Judo is great.

[georgejjr]

Originally Posted by Alzi_

Agreed. Some of the Judo sherdoggers take nuthuggery to a whole new level *cough* Q Mystic *cough*. I do believe that Judo has a place in MMA but Judokas need to adapt the sport to MMA because right now Judo is geared towards Olympic competition only. Karo Parisyan is the only guy who has really evolved the sport. I also think Judokas need to supplement their subgame with BJJ or Sambo because Judo groundwork is pretty weak to say the least.

Q Mystic is pretty over the top, but he's kind of entertaining. There's no more reason for judo in itself to adapt itself to MMA than there is for wrestling. They're olympic sports with millions of participants world wide, they stand on their own with or without MMA (as does BJJ). Individual judoka have to adapt for MMA, but so do individuals from any style ... pure style -> horrible loss, no matter what style.

As for who's done the best job of adapting judo for MMA, that would clearly be Fedor (his throws are about the most successful in the gme, in that until now there's no one he's been unable to throw, including Crocop ... though his takedown defense isn't as good as some, possibly because he wants to go to the ground).

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by georgejjr

Q Mystic is pretty over the top, but he's kind of entertaining. There's no more reason for judo in itself to adapt itself to MMA than there is for wrestling. They're olympic sports with millions of participants world wide, they stand on their own with or without MMA (as does BJJ). Individual judoka have to adapt for MMA, but so do individuals from any style ... pure style -> horrible loss, no matter what style.

As for who's done the best job of adapting judo for MMA, that would clearly be Fedor (his throws are about the most successful in the gme, in that until now there's no one he's been unable to throw, including Crocop ... though his takedown defense isn't as good as some, possibly because he wants to go to the ground).

Over the top?

Can I assume you mean for my choice of Pavel vs Barnett? Optimistic fan and my credibility is shot? I do not think that right now Pavel would have a chance vs Fedor or CC if that helps at all. I see Barnett very well rounded but not elite in any one particular area, so I see Pavel having a decent shot.

Or my occasional drunkeness.

I don't think I go over the top with my choice of judo vs other bases debate opinions. Quite open minded with respect to those I feel.

[Alzi_]

Originally Posted by Q mystic

I get a kick outta the judo needs to 'adapt' to mma. Does wrestling? Does bjj? Moreso imo.

BJJ and wrestling are more MMA-ready and easier to incoporate into an MMA repoitoire than Judo. Judo will not be suitable for MMA until it stops being so heavily gi-reliant and allows more than 5 seconds for grappling on the ground. And I also think they need to work on positioning after throws. Look at how Karo was unable to establish dominant position after throwing Diego who kept scrambling out. Ironically, Karo was able to control him best using double-leg takedowns.

I'm not a nuthugger. I just firmly believe that judo is the best grappling base for mma and believe that I am more than fair when debating the dynamics.

Every delusional nuthugger genuinely believes his MA or fav fighter is the best so that's not really saying much.

[georgejjr]

Originally Posted by Q mystic

Over the top?

Can I assume you mean for my choice of Pavel vs Barnett? Optimistic fan and my credibility is shot? I do not think that right now Pavel would have a chance vs Fedor or CC if that helps at all. I see Barnett very well rounded but not elite in any one particular area, so I see Pavel having a decent shot.

Or my occasional drunkeness.

I don't think I go over the top with my choice of judo vs other bases debate opinions. Quite open minded with respect to those I feel.

Well, you start more judo threads in a week than most people do in a year ... was going to suggest a 12 step program for you

You also kind of put things as judo vs __________, when in reality everyone in MMA has a wide variety of skills (especially on defense) ... there's never any pure judo or pure wrestling or pure BJJ etc. On the other hand, you get people reacting, and the threads can be entertaining to read. So, carry on

[linx]

Originally Posted by Alzi_

BJJ and wrestling are more MMA-ready and easier to incoporate into an MMA repoitoire than Judo. Judo will not be suitable for MMA until it stops being so heavily gi-reliant and allows more than 5 seconds for grappling on the ground.


And I also think they need to work on positioning after throws. Look at how Karo was unable to establish dominant position after throwing Diego who kept scrambling out. Ironically, Karo was able to control him best using double-leg takedowns.

Every grappling art has strenghs and weakness. BJJ realies on gi as well, many submissions in BJJ are hard or impossible to do without a gi. BJJ also seriously neglects the stand up portion of the grappling. This arguably makes it less suitable for MMA than judo right "out of the box". Wrestling has it's weaknesses as well, no submissions is one.

You are wrong about the 5 second ground limitation in judo. It takes 25 seconds to win a judo match with a pin, which would obviously be imposssible way to win with such a limitation.

I'd also argue your point about the lack of ground control in judo. You are trying to show how judo lacks ground control by providing a single example. That's a poor way to prove something. I could counter with two Nog fights - he couldn't maintain a top position against Fedor a single time. He often got reversed during takedown attempts as well. Fresh Nastula also reversed Nog with ease when he was on top.

For ground control I would say that with everything else being equal wrestling > judo > bjj. In judo you can win a fight by pinning your opponent. Ability to pin translates into the ability to control the fight on the ground and maintain top position. Wrestling has it, judo has it, BJJ does not.

[themaiden]

Judo is the best way to prepare for mma. Wrestling has no subs so a wrestler has to branch out and learn subwrestling/BJJ/sambo for sub defense. In the old days BJJ was best but now with the standup rules Judo is now dominant. Karo trains extensively on the ground for mma so using his fight with Diego as an example is not a valid point.

[rockStar60631]

Originally Posted by The Pancrasist

What the hell are you talking about? You can use throws / suplexes in freestyle as well, its just not as common while standing. Unless these are american "folkstyle" rules, which im not familiar with.

you can do throws in american folkstyle, hip tosses and headlocks are used more than suplexes though