Why do people "Hate" on Judo?

[juki]

judo=wrestling with subs, gi, and throws

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by juki

judo=wrestling with subs, gi, and throws

Yes. And the gi is a valuable tool in forcing the stand up clinch that is common in mma, which allows more experience with throws, sweeps and trips than nogi grappling ever allows proper experience for.

You should develop a better 'shot' in nogi grappling tho.

[spamalope]

Originally Posted by mmagraduate

I don't get why so many mma fighters have been talking trash about Judo lately. Is it because of jealousy or just ignorance? I think some guys are afraid that they might be missing something in their training and thats Judo's highly evolved throws. Most mma fighters nowadays have great wrestling style takedowns but the only guy I've ever seen use BJJ's throws are Rickson Gracie. I think Judo is the final ingredient in any fighters gamplan

control - wrestling
striking - boxing/muay thai/karate
submissions - sambo/judo/bjj
takedowns and throws - wrestling/judo/greco

I think this would make up the true complete fighter. I remember Marc Liamon on teh first season of tuf saying something negative about Judo and I couldn't believe it. Here we have a very respected martial artist talking trash about Judo when he probably pulls gaurd and wraps his legs around his opponents like a monkey to take them down.


watch what was voted the greatest highlight of all time at:
http://martialartsrpg.awardspace.com

control - wrestling

they don't use pins and hold in judo anymore??

[georgejjr]

Freestyle wrestling allows any kind of throw you can pull off. What it doesn't allow (in theory) is the same thing judo doesn't allow (in theory), dropping people on the head or neck. Quite a lot of crosstraining between judo and wrestling now both ways (Soviets started it and the Russians have been continuing it, with very good results ... #1 wrestling nation in world, #2-3 in judo).

In terms of MMA, judo's biggest problem is that it is jacket-wrestling, while most MMA is no-jacket (combat sambo is an exception). You have to modify the throws from gi to no-gi. Note that this isn't a problem in self-defense, at least in temperate and northern climates, because most people wear jackets, especially at night (even Helio commented on his dislike for no-gi BJJ on this basis), but it is a factor in MMA.

But this thread is very out of date. Judo get's a lot of respect nowadays in MMA, mainly because of Fedor, but also Karo and a number of others. The guy who said pure judo can't win in MMA is right of course, but it's true for all styles. Pure MT loses badly, pure BJJ loses badly, pure wrestling loses badly. If you haven't got a complete game, at least on defense, you' haven't got a chance. Lots of good sport judoka fail the transition to MMA, just as lots of good sport BJJ'ers and boxers and wrestlers do. It takes a very special kind of athlete to be able to do MMA ... a big part of it is versatility. The guys at the top build up their toolbox from a lot of sources (and remember defense is at least as important as offense in MMA ... how long would CC last without his takedown defense?). Judo is one of the elements in that toolbox, especially the sweeps and reaps.

[Alzi_]

Originally Posted by chendiesel

i dont think judo is bad especially adapted to mma, but my problem with it is alot of pure judo practioners are extremely arrogant and cocky. they are pretty full of themselves and think mma in general is a joke, at least the judo club around where im living now is. a guy was tellin me a story of how like a 3 time tennessee judo champion came into the gym acting like he could throw everyone around, and then got manhandled by guys who've been in there with 3 months or less of training. its not the art but the majority of the ppl learning it.

Agreed. Some of the Judo sherdoggers take nuthuggery to a whole new level *cough* Q Mystic *cough*. I do believe that Judo has a place in MMA but Judokas need to adapt the sport to MMA because right now Judo is geared towards Olympic competition only. Karo Parisyan is the only guy who has really evolved the sport. I also think Judokas need to supplement their subgame with BJJ or Sambo because Judo groundwork is pretty weak to say the least.

[jx820]

Originally Posted by mmagraduate

freestyle wrestling in high school does not allow "Slams"

You can throw them but you have to set them down softly. All major suplexes are illegal, you never wrestled or you would know that.

I wrestled for years. My headlocks used to always end in what was essentially a hip toss. I'd wrap the arm and head, turn my hip into them, rotate to drag their weight up and over my hip. I'd just make sure their feet moved faster than their torso. When their heels land first you hardly ever get a slam call. I also used variations of sweeps and trips in lots of positions.

[J_Ellis29]

Judo sure as hell does work, ask Karo.

Karo used it to win his fight against Diego...

but the judges must have not liked Judo ethier...

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by Alzi_

Agreed. Some of the Judo sherdoggers take nuthuggery to a whole new level *cough* Q Mystic *cough*. I do believe that Judo has a place in MMA but Judokas need to adapt the sport to MMA because right now Judo is geared towards Olympic competition only. Karo Parisyan is the only guy who has really evolved the sport. I also think Judokas need to supplement their subgame with BJJ or Sambo because Judo groundwork is pretty weak to say the least.

I get a kick outta the judo needs to 'adapt' to mma. Does wrestling? Does bjj? Moreso imo.

I'm not a nuthugger. I just firmly believe that judo is the best grappling base for mma and believe that I am more than fair when debating the dynamics.

I just happen to talk about it alot.

[Andre_the_Great]

wouldnt you agree that Yoshida has survived and done quite well (damn you Mirko hehe) in mma with strictly judo? Sure he throws punches but come on. He beat highly experienced Don Frye with nothing but judo in his debut. He beat Mark Hunt with judo. He fought Wandy twice with judo.
but yes, judo-hate seems to be the "thing" in mma. Didnt Couture say some crap about it in TUF1? Thank god Diego got tripped hard, threw around like a rag doll and dropped on his head.

[linx]

Originally Posted by kaewkaew

Judo is hated because all traditional olympic competed martial arts are not effective in MMA if the practitioner knows only that art!! Its a fact if you are straight out karate or straight out Judo then you will not do good in MMA today or in K1 standup.

Stand up? That doesn't make sense, why would a judoka do good in stand up when it's a grappling art?

As far as your other claim Yoshida took Pride MW champion Silva twice to a close decision with pretty much nothing more than pure judo. Nastula hung with Nog and Alex until he gassed with nothing but judo. Same with Sik Yoon against Rampage.

I'd say that pure Judo is just as effective in MMA as pure wrestling and pure BJJ are, and certainly more effective than any pure stand up art. Comparing judo efficiency in MMA with karate is ridiculous.