Why do people "Hate" on Judo?

[I_am_Jack]

Originally Posted by themaiden

Ughh no Pehlwani wrestling isnt better than catch wrestling. Goho was just a once in a century specimen just like Ad Santel was an incredible grappling prodigy. The point here is that grappling at a high level isnt about styles anymore but actually about the fighter.

Ito did beat Santel in their second match so your argument goes out the window anyway.

The techniques are not superior, but the training (or more correctly, the conditioning) the fighters receive is more intense, and therefore, the fighters are heartier that most catch wrestlers or judokai. From what I have read, Pehlwani wrestlers train 8-12 hours a day from the time they are children. That is pretty hardcore conditioning...but impractical for MMA.

As for Ito winning in the rematch, I hadn't read that, and I don't think you supplied a source, although you looked be directly quoting from somewhere. Where did you pull that data from?

What read said Santel was never beaten by a Kodokan representative.

[themaiden]

Originally Posted by I_am_Jack

The techniques are not superior, but the training (or more correctly, the conditioning) the fighters receive is more intense, and therefore, the fighters are heartier that most catch wrestlers or judokai. From what I have read, Pehlwani wrestlers train 8-12 hours a day from the time they are children. That is pretty hardcore conditioning...but impractical for MMA.

As for Ito winning in the rematch, I hadn't read that, and I don't think you supplied a source, although you looked be directly quoting from somewhere. Where did you pull that data from?

What read said Santel was never beaten by a Kodokan representative.

You read Wiki which has a history of being innacurate. Santels wins were exaggerted because of his pro wrestling personality.

http://judoinfo.com/discuss/lofivers...php/t2672.html


http://ejmas.com/jalt/2006jalt/jcsart_Svinth_0906.html



Furthermore whether Santel defeated every judoka or not it doesent matter. The point was that even someone with no skill but is an incedible specimen like Bopp Sapp can defeat someone who has years and years more training. Matches between two individuals do not prove anything. Your basing your facts around an indian wrestler who defeated a 7'2 giant. He was simply more of a beat than santel, that doesent mean catch wrestling is inferior to Pehlwani.

Catch wrestlers have defeated Pehlwani and Judo has defeated catch wrestling. BJJ has defeated Judo and Judo has defeated BJJ. When are you gonna learn from all of this?

Now your actually going as far as to say that yes Pehlwani is the highest form of grappling? You base this on the amount of training an average Pehlwani wrestler does in a day? Since when did we judge an art on the crosstraining of an individual?, thats ignorant and I doubt you really know anything about Pehlwani other than what you read on wiki. Hasnt MMA taught you anything about styles not being superior to eachother and it really comes down to how hard the fighter trains?

When you start saying Pehlwani wrestling is superior to catch wrestling, bjj and judo you lose all credibility as a true student of martial arts. Pehlwans who compete in wrestling nowadays are also known to cross train in the grappling aspects of Judo and Jujutsu.

[I_am_Jack]

Originally Posted by themaiden

You read Wiki which has a history of being innacurate. Santels wins were exaggerted because of his pro wrestling personality.

http://judoinfo.com/discuss/lofivers...php/t2672.html


http://ejmas.com/jalt/2006jalt/jcsart_Svinth_0906.html



Furthermore whether Santel defeated every judoka or not it doesent matter. The point was that even someone with no skill but is an incedible specimen like Bopp Sapp can defeat someone who has years and years more training. Matches between two individuals do not prove anything. Your basing your facts around an indian wrestler who defeated a 7'2 giant. He was simply more of a beat than santel, that doesent mean catch wrestling is inferior to Pehlwani.

Catch wrestlers have defeated Pehlwani and Judo has defeated catch wrestling. BJJ has defeated Judo and Judo has defeated BJJ. When are you gonna learn from all of this?

Now your actually going as far as to say that yes Pehlwani is the highest form of grappling? You base this on the amount of training an average Pehlwani wrestler does in a day? Since when did we judge an art on the crosstraining of an individual?, thats ignorant and I doubt you really know anything about Pehlwani other than what you read on wiki. Hasnt MMA taught you anything about styles not being superior to eachother and it really comes down to how hard the fighter trains?

When you start saying Pehlwani wrestling is superior to catch wrestling, bjj and judo you lose all credibility as a true student of martial arts. Pehlwans who compete in wrestling nowadays are also known to cross train in the grappling aspects of Judo and Jujutsu.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I think Judo has the most technically proficient techniques of the three. CAtch wrestling relies on strength to perform techniques, whereas Judo relies on physics. Further, Pehlwani is very primitive, and relies almost exclusively on strength for its effectiveness. I would argue that identical triplets separated at birth and trained: one in Judo, one in catch wrestling, and onw in Pehlwani, would more often than chance rank Judo, catch wrestling, and Pehlwani If they fought a round-robin. However, the Pehlwani especially, and catch wrestling to a lesser extent are more often than chance going to exclude practitioners who would be suitable for judo, but who would not be suitable for their rigoroues training. That is a form of "natural selection."

I wasn't trying to make a universal blanket statement. Just making a generalization.

[themaiden]

Originally Posted by I_am_Jack

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I think Judo has the most technically proficient techniques of the three. CAtch wrestling relies on strength to perform techniques, whereas Judo relies on physics. Further, Pehlwani is very primitive, and relies almost exclusively on strength for its effectiveness. I would argue that identical triplets separated at birth and trained: one in Judo, one in catch wrestling, and onw in Pehlwani, would more often than chance rank Judo, catch wrestling, and Pehlwani If they fought a round-robin. However, the Pehlwani especially, and catch wrestling to a lesser extent are more often than chance going to exclude practitioners who would be suitable for judo, but who would not be suitable for their rigoroues training. That is a form of "natural selection."

I wasn't trying to make a universal blanket statement. Just making a generalization.

Fair enough, I can't help but get defensive sometimes when there so many people who dismiss Judo.

[knee2face]

Akiyama just won the HEROES GP and beat Manhoef in impression fashion. Judo is very good.

[judasblack]

Akiyama was cool when he did that mid air reversal.