Why do people "Hate" on Judo?

[themaiden]

Originally Posted by I_am_Jack

As far as I can tell, yes. It was basically a pro wrestling match only real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_wrestling

Its a pretty interesting story and actually the foundation of mma in Japan but still it doesent prove anything about styles. Using your logic because Ad Santel was beaten by Gobar Goho then Pehlwani wrestling>Catch wrestling.

"The Kodokan replied that it permits mixed bouts with boxers and wrestlers for research purposes, but prohibits such bouts when they are employed for personal monetary gain. Regarding this match, the Kodokan noted that Mr. Ito had been away from Japan for number of years, and the lack of opportunity to train with stronger opponents may have contributed to his lack of judo ability. In addition, his fifth degree judo rank did not mean that his knowledge represented the ultimate in judo technique. In fact, fifth degree was the mid-point in ranking between first to tenth degrees. Therefore, the Kodokan concluded that Mr. Ito's loss did not reflect negatively on the efficacy of judo techniques, but instead on the poor showing of Mr. Ito."

Santel was actually defeated the second time him and Ito met and a few of his wins were a bit flukey, most of the time he drew with the mid ranked Judoka he was fighting. Heres the actual record

Opponent


Date


Location


Result

Senryuken Noguchi


November 30, 1915


San Francisco


Win for Santel

Tokugoro Ito


February 5, 1916


San Francisco


Win for Santel

Tokugoro Ito


June 10, 1916


San Francisco


Win for Ito

Taro Miyake


October 20, 1917


Seattle


Win for Santel

Daisuke Sakai


November 2, 1917


Seattle


Win for Santel

Reijiro Nagata


March 5, 1921


Tokyo


Draw

Hikoo Shoji


March 6, 1921


Tokyo


Draw

Hitoshi Shimizu


March 1921


Nagoya


Win for Santel

Tsutao Higami


July 4, 1925


Hilo


Draw

Setsuzo Ota


January 27, 1926


Los Angeles


Draw


He was fighting Judoka who werent even close to the highest ranked at the time. However it did force the Kodokan to open their eyes to western tecniques.

[Q mystic]

Ed 'the strangler' Lewis on judo,

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showt...99&hl=ed+lewis

'there's a has been much said that an american wrestler will beat a japanese anytime--thats just alot of hooey.'

err something like that.

[themaiden]

Judo is friggin awesome and people really need to stop hating on it and making unbiased claims about BJJ or wrestling being superior because thats not factual at all. Judo is not superior to BJJ or Wrestling but it should be trained with both of them in MIXED MARTIAL ARTS.

[themaiden]

Originally Posted by LiverShot2

I used throws in almost every single match when I was in high school. My favorites were Lat drops(over under hip toss), head traps (like Yoshida uses), and knee block suplexes(simple mat returns like Fedor uses). My favorite throw was the Lat Throw which I've never seen in MMA. My point here is that if you were tought wrestling by a good coach you don't need judo. You can learn the same takedowns at every wrestling room in Ohio.

More biased crap, you cant even name the wrestling moves that you were using let alone any Judo throws and we are supposed to believe your an expert on wrestling. You learn different stuff in Sambo/Judo/BJJ/Wrestling because they all have different objectives. Once again stop hating.

[georgejjr]

Wrestling and judo have been mixed for years (Soviets started it, Russians continued with it ... and are the #1 wrestling and #2 judo country in the world). A good judo coach knows all the wrestling takedowns as they can be applied in judo , a good wrestling coach knows all the judo throws as they can be applied in wrestling. But we're talking about national level coaches here ... a lot of local level judo coaches don't know much about wrestling and vice versa for wrestling coaches with judo. Still, by this time the throws and takedowns are pretty much part of the standard curriculum for both, to the point where it no longer matters where they originated.

For jacket fighting, judo throws/takedowns are tops. For non-jacket fighting, wrestling throws/takedowns are better. But good wrestling still works against guys wearing jackets (which is why it works on the street), and good judo still works against guys not wearing jackets (which is why they work in wrestling and MMA). In a lot of ways the best thing to do is cross train wrestling and judo as a kid, they compliment each other well. Judo really is just another form of wrestling (jacket wrestling), and like all forms of wrestling, it's very effective simply because you're always going against guys full out ... makes them very good at what they do, makes you strong, fast and tough.

[Judoka89]

Originally Posted by georgejjr

Wrestling and judo have been mixed for years (Soviets started it, Russians continued with it ... and are the #1 wrestling and #2 judo country in the world). .

Check the records.

It's

1. Japan
2. France
3. Korea

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by georgejjr

Wrestling and judo have been mixed for years (Soviets started it, Russians continued with it ... and are the #1 wrestling and #2 judo country in the world). A good judo coach knows all the wrestling takedowns as they can be applied in judo , a good wrestling coach knows all the judo throws as they can be applied in wrestling. But we're talking about national level coaches here ... a lot of local level judo coaches don't know much about wrestling and vice versa for wrestling coaches with judo. Still, by this time the throws and takedowns are pretty much part of the standard curriculum for both, to the point where it no longer matters where they originated.

For jacket fighting, judo throws/takedowns are tops. For non-jacket fighting, wrestling throws/takedowns are better. But good wrestling still works against guys wearing jackets (which is why it works on the street), and good judo still works against guys not wearing jackets (which is why they work in wrestling and MMA). In a lot of ways the best thing to do is cross train wrestling and judo as a kid, they compliment each other well. Judo really is just another form of wrestling (jacket wrestling), and like all forms of wrestling, it's very effective simply because you're always going against guys full out ... makes them very good at what they do, makes you strong, fast and tough.

I liked in your other post where you had 'judo for jacket and wrestling for none and the diff was damn small'.

I agree in nogi comp like sport grappling and wrestling, but don't you think the favor shifts somewhat for judo in mma where the standup clinch is more prevelant? Especially considering(not big, but edge) that a judo will be more opt to fight from back.

[S. Carter]

Originally Posted by Ashado

Judo is infinitely more entertaining than wrestling.

i wouldn't say infinitely. in their purest forms both are pretty hard to watch. but, judo throws are more attractive.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by Judoka89

Check the records.

It's

1. Japan
2. France
3. Korea

Countries go up and down year by year but in the long run Russia is 2nd behind Japan. Imo, from liking judo for 26 years. I might be wrong tho.

[S L A M]

LiverShot, a Lateral is not an over under hip throw.