Why do people "Hate" on Judo? - Page 12

vb · 10-06-2006, 12:00 AM

karo seems to do well with it

hoosier86 · 10-06-2006, 12:01 AM

my cousin (state hs wrestling background placed 3rd) sparred judo against some degreed "black belt" and contolled him easily the whole time.. he said the judo was getting really heated.. what im trying to say is wrestling is better.. i love wathcing judo though. it's way more entertaining just not as effective. but then again jackie chan is entertaining but we all know hed get raped in the cage.

Twistedbydesign · 10-06-2006, 12:03 AM

A lot of BJJ guys have a Judo background (Filho, Werdum, Aoki).

**Q mystic** · 10-06-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier86

my cousin (state hs wrestling background placed 3rd) sparred judo against some degreed "black belt" and contolled him easily the whole time.. he said the judo was getting really heated.. what im trying to say is wrestling is better.. i love wathcing judo though. it's way more entertaining just not as effective. but then again jackie chan is entertaining but we all know hed get raped in the cage.

Anything in particular you don't think is as effective? Certainly you must think the submission are moreso.

georgejjr · 10-06-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier86

my cousin (state hs wrestling background placed 3rd) sparred judo against some degreed "black belt" and contolled him easily the whole time.. he said the judo was getting really heated.. what im trying to say is wrestling is better.. i love wathcing judo though. it's way more entertaining just not as effective. but then again jackie chan is entertaining but we all know hed get raped in the cage.

The US gets more medals in a single wrestling world championships than it has in 40 years of judo. America is a third world country judo wise (probably not even in the top 50), but one of the better in wrestling (it got third in the world championships this year). Comparing judo's effectiveness vs wrestling effectiveness based on American judo vs American wrestling is meaningless.

Anyone who's fought in both wrestling and judo at national and international levels will tell you the same thing: wrestling is more effective if people are wearing no jacket, judo is more effective if people are wearing a jacket, but the difference is damn small. Which is why Fedor beat Coleman, though neither wore jackets. Most of these style vs style things are started by people who aren't good at either. I've been in workshops by olympic medal winners in judo and by olympic medal winners in wrestling, and they've nothing but respect for each other. Only on the internet (or crazy guys like Hughes who think Sylvia will beat Fedor because judo doesn't work) will you find people saying judo > wrestling or wrestling > judo.

Darkloner · 10-06-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistedbydesign

A lot of BJJ guys have a Judo background (Filho, Werdum, Aoki).

there was a hype up vid that also mention nogueira starting with judo...

themaiden · 10-06-2006, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_Jack

Kyokushin karate is the exception, not the rule. If you meant kyokushin put that, not generic "karate"

Judo is less effective than wrestling, as demonstrated around the turn of the last century. Go to wikapedia and read up on "catch wrestling." The japanses obsession with pro-wrestling and Shooto began as a result of multiple judo world champions losing to American catch wrestlers.

BJJ, and submission wrestling correct many of the problems inherent in sport judo, and make it competitive.

Also, judo uses mostly throws and chokes which require a gi, which is not allowed or required in MMA. That makes the style less effective.

Kyokushin Karate is simply karate with full contact just like BJJ is modified Judo which is modified full contact jujitsu. I could also mention other karate styles such and Shidokin(sorry about spelling). Catch wrestling and BJJ is pretty cool stuff but like some have mentioned because of the high amount of ref standing up the fighters Judo reigns supreme for modern day mma combat. With no standups and no rounds I would agree that catch wrestling and BJJ reign supreme. Was there striking allowed in these Judo vs. Catch wrestling competitions?

GuardGame · 10-06-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q mystic

Pretty simply, take an elite olympic judo, olympic wrestler and mundial bjjer off the mat and prep him for mma. Generally, which will need to learn the least? Seriously?

The only debate I see is busting some myths.

WELLLLL..as far as grappling for MMA goes...If you take the wrestler, he can learn half of the sub game by learning the counters, his goal would be to take down and ground and pound right? RIGHT

If you take a Mundial BJJ'er he should have DECENT takedowns at best and he would just have to hook up with a bunch of wrestlers to get better at takedowns and defending them

If you take a Judo guy, all he really has is the throws and a limited amount of newaza..I dont know how good he would be at defending the takedown..

It doesnt matter now...nowadays, kids are training BOTH BJJ and Wrestling..

If you start a kid out training BJJ and Wrestling for MMA and if you start a kid training just Judo for mma grappling the kid with the BJJ and Wrestling background is going to go a lot farther..

georgejjr · 10-06-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuardGame

It doesnt matter now...nowadays, kids are training BOTH BJJ and Wrestling..

If you start a kid out training BJJ and Wrestling for MMA and if you start a kid training just Judo for mma grappling the kid with the BJJ and Wrestling background is going to go a lot farther..

Sure, cross training beats single style every time. Judo and wrestling will beat pure BJJ as well, BJJ and judo will beat pure wrestling. I suspect I'd start the kids out with boxing and one of the grappling arts (probably wrestling in my case) instead of two grappling arts though.

I_am_Jack · 10-06-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaiden

Kyokushin Karate is simply karate with full contact just like BJJ is modified Judo which is modified full contact jujitsu. I could also mention other karate styles such and Shidokin(sorry about spelling). Catch wrestling and BJJ is pretty cool stuff but like some have mentioned because of the high amount of ref standing up the fighters Judo reigns supreme for modern day mma combat. With no standups and no rounds I would agree that catch wrestling and BJJ reign supreme. Was there striking allowed in these Judo vs. Catch wrestling competitions?

As far as I can tell, yes. It was basically a pro wrestling match only real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_wrestling