[RobertCadnor]

It bothers me that in the UFC the takedown is valued so incredibly much. Just because a fighter is on his back it doesn't mean he's losing the fight. Time and time again we've seen wrestlers just lay on top of and maintain position and "win" fights without even being a real threat or throwing strikes.

In addition to that the person on top could do absolutely nothing and still win off of points from the takedown. It would be the equivalent of scoring one basket in basketball then holding on to the ball until all 48 minutes are up on the clock.

The UFC needs to release a static scoring system on how much certain strikes, submission attempts, and takedowns are worth in terms of points. Degrees of damage and near fight ending submissions should be factored in also. This will help the mainstream audience's understanding of MMA. It's just two guys rolling on the ground otherwise.

To quote a lady friend's reaction to grappling, "Awww, they love each other."

[RobertCadnor]

ttt

[Girljock]

the judges are starting to get better. I think the refs also need to be more consistent on standing people up. I honestly flip flop on that....but a great wrestler keeping a so so wrestler down on the ground...not doing much...should be stood up. A punch every thirty seconds ain't gonna do it. They have a lot to look at.....I dont' think it's realistic that they have a tier of points for certain moves, etc.


E. Judging Criteria
1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:
-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
-Octagon Control
-Effective Aggressiveness

F. Clean Strikes
1. The fighter who is landing both effective and efficient clean strikes.
2. There are two ways of measuring strikes:
-the total number of clean strikes landed (more efficient)
-the total number of heavy strikes landed (more effective)

G. The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than totalnumber landed.
1. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria.
2. The total number of strikes landed, should be of sufficient quantity favoring a fighter, to earn a winning round.

H. Strikes thrown from the top position of the guard, are generally heavier and more effective than those thrown from the back.
1. Thus a Judge shall recognize that effective strikes thrown from the top guard position are of "higher quality",than thrown from the bottom.
2. The Judge shall recognize that this is not always the case.
However, the vast majority of fighters prefer the top guard position to strike from. This is a strong indication of positional dominance for striking.

I. Effective Grappling
1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.
2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.
3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.
4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.
5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4)
6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.
7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling

J. Octagon Control
1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.
2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.
3. A grappler who can takedown an effective standing striker to ground fight is octagon control.
4. The fighter on the ground who creates submission, mount or clean striking opportunities

K. Effective Aggressiveness
1. This simply means who is moving forward and finding success.(scoring)
2. Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward.
3. Throwing strikes and not landing is not effective aggressiveness.
4. Moving forward and getting struck is not effective aggressiveness.
5. Shooting takedowns and getting countered and fended off is not effective aggressiveness.

L. Criteria Evaluation
1. Each judge is to evaluate which fighter was most effective. Thus striking and grappling skills are top priority.
2. Evaluating the criteria requires the use of a sliding scale. Fights can remain standing or grounded.
Judges shall recognize that it isn't how long the fighters are standing or grounded, as to the scoring the fighters achieve ,while in those positions.
3. If 90% of the round is grounded one fighter on top, then:
-effective grappling is weighed first.
-clean striking is weighed next. If clean strikes scored in the round, the Judge shall factor it in. Clean Striking can outweigh Effective Grappling while the fighters are grounded.
-octagon control is next (pace, place & position)

4. The same rational holds true if 90% of the round were standing. Thus:
-clean striking would be weighed first (fighter most effective)
-clean grappling second (any takedowns or effective clinching)
-octagon control which fighter maintained better position? Which fighter created the situations that led to effective strikes?

5. If a round was 50% standing and 50% on the ground, then:
-clean striking and effective grappling are weighed more equally.
-octagon control would be factored next

6. In all three hypothetical situations, effective aggressiveness is factored in last. It is the criteria of least importance. Since the definition calls for moving forward and scoring, it is imperative for the Judges to look at the scoring first.

7. Thus for all Judges scoring UFC fights, the prioritized order of evaluating criteria is:
-clean strikes and effective grappling are weighed first.
-octagon control
-effective aggressiveness

M. Domination Criteria
1. A Judge may determine that a fighter dominated his opponent in a round. This can lead to a two point or more difference on a Judge's scorecard.
2. The definition of a dominating round is a fighter's ability to effectively strike, grapple and control his opponent.
3. A Judge may determine a round was dominating if a fighter was adversely affected by one of the following:
-knocked down from standing position by clean strike
-by submission attempt
-from a throw
-from clean strikes either standing or grounded.

N. Judge's Scorecard Procedures
After each round:
1. each Judge will determine and record a score each round
2. a MMAC official will collect the scorecard after each round
3. the MMAC official will track and add each Judges score by round
4. If the fight goes the time limit, the MMAC official will add each Judge's scorecard and double check total
5. the fighter with the greater number of points wins the fight on each Judges scorecard
6. the fighter who won on the majority of the Judges Scorecards, wins the fight
7. the MMAC official will hand the decision to the PA announcer

O. Types of Judge's Decisions
1. If all three scorecards agree Unanimous
2. If two of three scorecards agree Split
3. Two scorecards agree and one draw Majority
4. two scorecards agree on draw Draw
5. all scorecards different Draw

IX SCORING SYSTEM

A. The MMAC and UFC have adopted a 10 point must system.
The Judge will use the criteria to determine a winner each round. The three step procedure per round is as follows:
-determine winner of round (can be draw)
-determine if winner dominated round
-fouls then factored in (subtract one point per foul from fighter)

B. Draws are again acceptable in MMAC events

C. Point Totals
1. two fighters who draw are given a score of 10-10
2. the fighter who wins a round is given a score of 10-9
3.The fighter who dominates a round is given a score of 10-8
(a score of 10-7 is possible for a dominant round)
4.For each foul a fighter commits, a point is subtracted. This deduction can change a winning round
to a draw. 9-9

[RobertCadnor]

Originally Posted by Girljock

3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.

Standing fighters up is a main concern of mine also. A prime example is the match between Dean Lister and Marquardt. Any time the fight got to the ground Marquardt would hang on to Lister, which is perfectly fine, but the problem is that two fighters would be stood up after a few seconds. Lister wasn't allowed any time to operate and create openings and I believe it's mainly because the offensive fighter, Lister, was on his back. Given the proper time Lister had a very good chance at submitting Marquardt (see ADCC 2003).

Hands down Big John McCarthy is the best referee in all of MMA, but he turned this MMA fight into a striking bout and gave Lister no chance to grapple. It made Marquardt look like a premiere striker and made Lister look like a can.

You're absolutely right they need to be more consistent with standing up fights.

[ZaydenNTX]

We debate about this every time there is a PPV or fight on. Its so complex with the endless moves and transitions I can see who it would be difficult to score a fight.. I would be interested in seeing shots throw\shots landed, take down attempts landed\stuffed, sprawls ect. Be nice to have an actual list of stats when the final bell rings.

[AThomBomb]

notin' like beating a dead horse......

[FarCry]

Originally Posted by RobertCadnor

It bothers me that in the UFC the takedown is valued so incredibly much. Just because a fighter is on his back it doesn't mean he's losing the fight. Time and time again we've seen wrestlers just lay on top of and maintain position and "win" fights without even being a real threat or throwing strikes.

In addition to that the person on top could do absolutely nothing and still win off of points from the takedown. It would be the equivalent of scoring one basket in basketball then holding on to the ball until all 48 minutes are up on the clock.

The UFC needs to release a static scoring system on how much certain strikes, submission attempts, and takedowns are worth in terms of points. Degrees of damage and near fight ending submissions should be factored in also. This will help the mainstream audience's understanding of MMA. It's just two guys rolling on the ground otherwise.

To quote a lady friend's reaction to grappling, "Awww, they love each other."

Well you're pretty much an idiot, because the "UFC" has nothing to do with the scoring, They don't control that.

[RobertCadnor]

Originally Posted by FarCry

Well you're pretty much an idiot, because the "UFC" has nothing to do with the scoring, They don't control that.

Well you're pretty much an idiot for disregarding the point of this thread and focusing on small technicality in order to launch an insult. Please show some proof that you have evolved with the rest of us homosapiens and post something that actually contributes to the community.

[PeterGunz83]

Originally Posted by FarCry

Well you're pretty much an idiot, because the "UFC" has nothing to do with the scoring, They don't control that.

True, but if the UFC was to press the governing bodies into changing certain scoring rules, then there's a good chance changes would be made. More so than probably any other organization's lobbying. I wish some changes would be made now, while the sport is still young because the longer the wait the less likely rule changes will probably occur.

[Masterhater]

Yes, takedowns should count for nothing, just as knocking someome to the mat in boxing shouldn't count. The only thing that should count is laying on your back and trying to submit someone.