[FStep]

Originally Posted by TheMainMan

How is a takedown controlling your opponent if your opponent wants to pull guard?

if you want to pull guard you pull guard from the clinch and they don't award a takedown to your opponent if you pull guard but even in bjj pulling guard while your opponent is trying to take you down counts against you (in fact if there's any forward motion against you and you pull guard your opponent gets points so this argument is void)

[guaty]

i just made a thread of this yesterday

[guaty]

Idea for scoring methods

I put numbers nest to certain moves just so its easier to see what should count for more than others. i.e. slam counts more than a 2 legged take down.

takedown plus aggression should count the same as pulling guard and sub attempts.

pulling guard or takedown and then doing nothing should be the same as just circling

[Bigj383]

Originally Posted by LeonardShelby

How do you know he impossed his will? First of all I doubt his will would be to end in the guard. And I doubt his will was to barely escape a submission. So who impossed their will on who?

And if people want to say the guard is a neutral position. Then the takedown just ended up in a neutral position.

He imposed will by going for a move and landing it. You can't assume all fighters or any fighter for that matter has a good guard. Lets say a fighter is fighting a good standup fighter and takes his opponent down that is imposing his will. If a fighter takes down Chuck Liddell it should score, If a fighter takes down Mirko Cro-Cop it should score, if a fighter takes down Tim Sylvia it should score, If a fighter takes down Mark Hunt it should score. Not one of those fighters would be happy to be on their back. Saying you should consider a fighters ground abilities in scoring is rediculous. Mark Hunt is almost impossible to KO should this be considered when he gets hit in the head 20 times? Or should that be negated because he has a good chin and takes no percieved damage.

[that1guy1980]

I know the rules are set by the NSAC, but is the scoring system? Since the judges actually work for the NSAC and not for the UFC.

[LeonardShelby]

Originally Posted by Bigj383

He imposed will by going for a move and landing it. You can't assume all fighters or any fighter for that matter has a good guard. Lets say a fighter is fighting a good standup fighter and takes his opponent down that is imposing his will. If a fighter takes down Chuck Liddell it should score, If a fighter takes down Mirko Cro-Cop it should score, if a fighter takes down Tim Sylvia it should score, If a fighter takes down Mark Hunt it should score. Not one of those fighters would be happy to be on their back. Saying you should consider a fighters ground abilities in scoring is rediculous. Mark Hunt is almost impossible to KO should this be considered when he gets hit in the head 20 times? Or should that be negated because he has a good chin and takes no percieved damage.

I said take into consideration what they actually do in the fight. I said take in consideration what happens after the takedown. I never said count anything depending on what you think or assume the fighters skills are. Or their ability to take punishment. Your Mark Hunt comparison has nothing to do with my point of view.

[Newb]

Originally Posted by LeonardShelby

Most likely a maneuver the oponent does not consider worth fighting off if he has a superior guard anyway and is looking to finish a fight.

You're talking in "ifs". Like if a guy is great from his back, the takedown shouldnt count. Doesnt work that way. You dont score points based on the styles of the fighters. A takedowns is a takedown, it scores the same whether the guy is great off his back, or just goog. Leben is known pretty much as a brawler. He still subbed Dewees from his back. That doesnt mean Dewees shouldnt have gotten points for the takedown.

Originally Posted by LeonardShelby

And if people want to say the guard is a neutral position. Then the takedown just ended up in a neutral position.

Guard is a neutral position. But that doesnt make takedowns neutral.

[Bigj383]

Originally Posted by LeonardShelby

I said take into consideration what they actually do in the fight. I said take in consideration what happens after the takedown. I never said count anything depending on what you think or assume the fighters skills are. Or their ability to take punishment. Your Mark Hunt comparison has nothing to do with my point of view.

They do take into consideration what happens after the takedown. They consider submission attempts, GnP, Guard Passes, Sweeps, Position changes, they consider all that as well as the takedown.

Are you saying a takedown can score if the fighter who scored the takedown dominates. Say if Tito took a fighter down even into Guard elbowed the shit out of his face then stood up should the takedown score? So what if a fighter takes his opponent down and they do nothing. The fighter on the bottom stalls out a standup then gets taken down again and attempts to stall out a standup and gets taken down again. Should that round be a draw or should the fighter with 3 takedowns win over the fighter who did nothing but stall. Takedowns score to avoid the bottom fighter from stalling out a standup.

[saint_berzerker]

What I don't get is....

...pretty much, at least 1 of the 2 guys is getting 10 pts for a round and the other guy gets 8 or 9.

It's just dumb. It should be a point per hit or takedown, like boxing scoring....or at least more like it. It's just totally illogical.

[LeonardShelby]

Originally Posted by Newb

You're talking in "ifs". Like if a guy is great from his back, the takedown shouldnt count. Doesnt work that way. You dont score points based on the styles of the fighters. A takedowns is a takedown, it scores the same whether the guy is great off his back, or just goog. Leben is known pretty much as a brawler. He still subbed Dewees from his back. That doesnt mean Dewees shouldnt have gotten points for the takedown.


Guard is a neutral position. But that doesnt make takedowns neutral.

I clearly stated what should count is what happens after the takedown. The takedown itself should never count.