++ takedown scoring discussion

cccre · 11-07-2009, 04:45 AM

I propose takedowns should be scored the very same way as ANY improvement of position; full guard -> half, half -> side, so on and so forth.

clearly there would still be scoring for control, aggression etc. but I feel just simply completing a takedown (even if the opponent gets right back up) carries far to much weight in the current judging. I feel a rule such as this would make people work harder once completing the takedown, knowing a takedown alone wouldn't really be enough to steal a round, or win a fight.

any thoughts?

also please correct me if this is the case, though I can't imagine it is.

Don Hagliatelli · 11-07-2009, 05:06 AM

I think this is a very tough area to score.

Should a TD count at all if you don't do anything with it?

Should position improvement count if you don't do anything with it?

What constitutes an improvement of position? How does full mount compare to side mount?

I don't know what the answer is but I soetimes think that grappling shouldn't count for anything.

Whilst on the gound you should have to strike or go for subs - which would score.

Although you wouldn't directly score points for TDs or position changes you would have the better position from which to score with strikes and subs.

I always liked the Pride rule that the main scoring criteria was effort to finish the fight.

If a guy lands a big punch and then gets taken down and layed on for the rest of thematch then the guy who landed the punch should win the fight.

cccre · 11-07-2009, 05:30 AM

you're 100% correct you should have to WORK once you attain the 'advantageous position.' I believe you should be rewarded marginally for attaining the position, but once you're there you must strike, attempt subs etc. etc. simply attaining the position shouldn't be enough to win, so I think we agree on everything after the takedown is completed.

JackT · 11-07-2009, 06:52 AM

I agree fully. A takedown should be consider an improvement in position, just like from full guard to half guard. Period. A couple of takedowns yielding no additional damage from the attacker should not tip the scale in his favor in a somewhat even round.

jcg1977 · 11-07-2009, 06:58 AM

It would cut back on a lot of L&P thats for sure. It would be a disadvantage to wrestlers, and Sonnen.

SamSerious · 11-07-2009, 07:07 AM

"Improvements of position" shouldn't count much, imo. That includes takedowns. You need to strike/sub someone. You need to cause damage.
L n P wrestlers, if there are some, should be forced to work on their GnP or subgame.

I mean seriously, Lesnar is the prime example on how it SHOULD BE DONE. He takes people down and inflicts a lot of damage. His GnP is good, and it's not just power either. He knows how to control opponents and damage them at the same time. That's what the other wrestlers need to learn.

PainMerchant · 11-07-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccre

I propose takedowns should be scored the very same way as ANY improvement of position; full guard -> half, half -> side, so on and so forth.

clearly there would still be scoring for control, aggression etc. but I feel just simply completing a takedown (even if the opponent gets right back up) carries far to much weight in the current judging. I feel a rule such as this would make people work harder once completing the takedown, knowing a takedown alone wouldn't really be enough to steal a round, or win a fight.

any thoughts?

also please correct me if this is the case, though I can't imagine it is.

Pretty sound logic to me. It's like a flash knock down that leads to nothing.

Props on the Shogun LHW Champ/embarrassment line in your sig.....

ALJO2511 · 11-07-2009, 07:52 AM

Blue belt Blue belt Blue belt Blue belt, White belt White belt White belt.

cccre · 11-07-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALJO2511

Blue belt Blue belt Blue belt Blue belt, White belt White belt White belt.

um, ok?

Xostile · 11-07-2009, 06:20 PM

See I like a good takedown scoring well, because it's not easy to do. After the takedown though if there's not any action there should be no scoring. in the stand up game do you score anything if they are just feeling each other out? no, no action should be no scoring when you're on top. Octagon control I think is a joke.