[bobbylee]

he has all the tools but something significant in his training has to change

[methosb]

It is kinda ironic that the exact same thing happened to Forrest after he fought Jardine.

[BPA00]

It's just this stupid PRIDE vs. UFC bull shit... Shogun is only 25 and extremely talented... He just needs to focus harder on conditioning... w/out the use of roids... if that was indeed part of the reason he gassed in this fight but never did in MUCH tougher ones...

[warhog585]

Originally Posted by skylolow

I to have been a long time fan also.

What is really bothering me is just the poor performance of most of the Pride fighters that came over. I've been into MMA for a long time, well over ten years. I feel I have a pretty good eye on talent or in otherwords who is legit and who is a pretender. I can honestly admit I haven't really been wrong on too many guys through the years.

I'm honestly starting to question if everything I saw in PRIDE over the years was legit. We all know of work fights at the start up of Pride. Been a few rumors through the years that some fighters in Pride have been offered bonuses and other promises for tanking. Yazuka had there hands in Pride about as deep as you can go. So it isn't to far fetch to connect some dots.

Also it really has me questioning the use of performance enhancement drugs in Pride. I've never seen Shogun gas like he did last night. CroCop seems to be just completely out of it. Look at Gomi vs Diaz. Gomi looked great for about 3 minutes and then went down hill fast.

I'm not really mad that Shogun lost. I'm just really starting to get a gut feeling about if Pride was really always on the up and up. Makes me sad to think any of this could be true. I'm leaning more on the performance drug side of things, but still just sad.

.........and there you have it. In an interview with Juanito, Rampage's trainer, Juanito suggested that the Chute Box guys had "....extra help" when Rampage fought them before, and that things would be different next time. At first I was thinking about how the Ref inexplicably stood Vanderlai and Quentin up when Quentin was doin' mad damage on the ground, but there was obviously no help from the ref in the Shogun fight. Then when Shogun entered the cage, damn! Where was the cut ?You couldn't see veins everywhere and muscles rippling like all of his Pride fights, he looked pretty soft actually. Anybody who thinks that he didn't train seriously for his debut fight with the UFC is completely insane. There's testing in the UFC, so Shogun had to skip some of his Sunny Delight....not quite the same fighter.

[Rockout Dragon]

Originally Posted by warhog585

.........and there you have it. In an interview with Juanito, Rampage's trainer, Juanito suggested that the Chute Box guys had "....extra help" when Rampage fought them before, and that things would be different next time. At first I was thinking about how the Ref inexplicably stood Vanderlai and Quentin up when Quentin was doin' mad damage on the ground, but there was obviously no help from the ref in the Shogun fight. Then when Shogun entered the cage, damn! Where was the cut ?You couldn't see veins everywhere and muscles rippling like all of his Pride fights, he looked pretty soft actually. Anybody who thinks that he didn't train seriously for his debut fight with the UFC is completely insane. There's testing in the UFC, so Shogun had to skip some of his Sunny Delight....not quite the same fighter.

You have hard evidence right? Video? Blood Test Results? A confession. Or is it just you opinion? Would you be willing to sit down and recite your little theory to the man's face? I'll save you the dishonor of lying and answer that for you....

[sniper4321]

I just dont understand why the fuck guys are coming over from Pride, and none of them are even half the fighter they were in Pride.

I just dont get it. It's like someone just told them that they never have to train anymore or something. SHOGUN GASING IN THE 2ND ROUND!!! Are u kidding??? Is there some magic button to push that allows UFC fighters to just beat any Pride fighter they want?? Its like Shogun didnt train at all for this fight.

Shogun is still my number one guy and I really hope that he comes back strong because I dont think there is anyone in the division that can beat him when he is on his A game

[muay-thai-pwr]

I think fighting in the Cage has effected the PRide fighters. They aren't used to being pressed against the Cage and also being forced into the Cage by constant pressuring.
In the Ring you tend to fight in the middle or the clinch against the rope. Hence the reason why cage fighters keep pressing the fight to cut angles to get to the Cage. It's a whole different fighting when once inside the Cage, it will take sometime for the Pride fighters to adapt to it.

[FREE BEER!]

Yeah, the guy's 25 years old, a Pride GP champ, and trains with one of the best teams in the world. He's still top 10 in my book and I see no reason why he couldn't be in title contention in 6 or 9 months.

However, he (and everyone else) has their work cut out for themselves if they want to stand out is today's UFC. The competition is just too tough.

[Faceoff]

Originally Posted by JohnJRambo

I was really dissatisfied as a true Shogun fan, but I am sure he will be back soon ... and very strong, he is just 25 years old... and MMA fans should not forget those great fights he offered in the past!!! a real mixed martial arts fan doesn't bash fighters!!!! I'm really shocked reading all those posts here!!!!!!!

There may be some bashing, the point alot were reacting to was the overconfidence of many Shogun fans. Over-conficence and overlooking opponents has a way of getting under people's skin. I think Shogun and alot of his most zealous fans were gulity of both. Shogun will be back, but the point is he just got his ass kicked by a tuffer. He will have to prove again how "great" he is.

[shupe]

i agree he will be back strong