Seriously... Takedowns? - Page 2

Hanoi Rox · 03-07-2006, 08:22 PM

Takedowns don't win fights by themselves, but they're at least an aggressive action in which one fighter imposes his will on another. It's not much, but it's something. Using the case of Penn vs. GSP (which undoubtably insipired this thread), GSP might have not done much more than take Penn down, but that's more than what Penn did. Had Penn continued to win the stand up like he did in the first round, then you could make the argument that he should have won rounds 2 and 3, but Penn didn't do anything after the first round. Therefore, just taking Penn down was enough to win the rounds.

As far as giving points for spralws and stand ups, you don't want to give out points fo defensive actions, or you'll start getting REALLY boring fights. That would be like giving out points for holding someone in gaurd.

Hanoi Rox · 03-07-2006, 08:23 PM

As far as takedowns not counting in wrestling, dude wtf? A pin still trumps any number of take downs, but you can't just have matches go on for hours, which is what would happen if they didn't give out points.

~Power~ · 03-07-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commissar

So, lets say standup is equal in that fight.
For each takedown St. Pierre got, Penn got up, so thats equal.
Oh, wait, Penn didn't get up from the takedown that last time. So, St. Pierre had one more takedown in that fight than Penn got up from.
So, all other things equal, St. Pierre would still have won.

Zing! Agreed.

**SuperSuperRambo** · 03-07-2006, 08:31 PM

You thought points for takedowns were lame?

ss454 · 03-07-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luebbers

The standup fighter does get credit for takedown defense. In a classic striker vs. grappler matchup, if the striker keeps stuffing takedowns, he gets points for controlling the match. Just like a grappler gets points for controlling the match if he keeps taking the striker down.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. The only way a standup fighter gets credit for takedown defence is if he manages to stay on his feet for the entire round. 1 takedown seems to outweight 5 stuffs/sprawls in the UFC.

jayyon39 · 03-07-2006, 08:33 PM

The takedown itself shouldn't count for anything unless it is done with a slam that inflicts damage. Theoretically, there is nothing different between someone using a wrestling shoot for a takedown and someone jumping up and pulling guard or falling into guard for that matter. Take downs should be judged for what comes after. If the result is good gnp, then that should score points. If the result is lay n pray, that should be punished. The ufc judging is pretty fucked up when it comes to this. ALso, cage control is a fucked up concept too. Gsp simply stalled by holding bj against the fence, yet got credit for ring control.

Terry Silver · 03-07-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearGrounds

well i wrestled in college and getting a takedown in high school is simple at that level..going for a takedown u risk a knee to the face! and your saying it shouldnt score??

Good point. I used to wrestle in school too and at no time was I worried about being kicked or kneed in the face. A takedown in MMA is much harder to get and should count. Also why is everyone complaining about takedowns all of a sudden. Just because GSP used it to beat BJ. Most of MMA's best were great takedown artist. I didn't see anyone complaining then.

Hanoi Rox · 03-07-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss454

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. The only way a standup fighter gets credit for takedown defence is if he manages to stay on his feet for the entire round. 1 takedown seems to outweight 5 stuffs/sprawls in the UFC.

The stand up fighter get points if he keeps it on the feet by inflicting damage while on the feet. If the stand up fighter stuffs five take downs, but fails to hit the ground fiighter, then he shouldn't get any points.

CanadaMMA · 03-07-2006, 08:39 PM

Takedowns are a huge part of scoring in MMA simply because the most important skill in MMA is the ability to keep the fight where you are the better fighter. Scoring a takedown does that.

CRWolff · 03-07-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commissar

Valid point.

So, lets say standup is equal in that fight.

For each takedown St. Pierre got, Penn got up, so thats equal.

Oh, wait, Penn didn't get up from the takedown that last time. So, St. Pierre had one more takedown in that fight than Penn got up from.

So, all other things equal, St. Pierre would still have won.

no, because what resulted from that takedown was submission defence by GSP... penn tried to submit, gsp avoided, null and void. m00t