Scoring fights

Tony Manifold · 09-01-2006, 11:14 AM

It seems every time a close fight goes to the judges there are a dozen threads on this forum about how so and so PWND the guy who won and it was a robbery blah blah blah. No some debate is inevitable, particularily in really close split decisions but I think some discussion on how fights are scored is needed.

When Scoring a fight, the first thing you need to do is turn off the sound. The annoucer's sometimes have there own bias and you don't want that influencing your decision. You may not notice it but it will. The annoucer will say how hard a punch was so you score it as a power shot when maybe it only landed on the gloves.

Think like a judge not a fan. Cool does not always score points. If some one tries a sick submission it doesn't score more points then the guy who tries the vanilla armbar.

Finally ignore Eddie Bravo. I just don't like that guy's scoring.

Now on to the mechanics of fight scoring. I will use the UFC as an example because I am more familiar with their scoring system. The UFC scores rounds on Striking, Grappling, Aggression and Octogon control. The key word to all these areas is EFFECTIVE. Just because someone is throws more punches doesn't mean they win the round one striking.

Striking example A: Fighter A throws 40 punches in the round landing 8 clean and 27 on the gloves or forearms and misses with 5. Of the 8 landed punches 5 are jabs, 3 are power shots. Fighter B thows 20 punches he lands 12 with 8 jabs and 4 power shots. Who controlled the striking?

Based on the number's in example A we would say Fighter B. However, we also have to take in effect of the punches.

Striking example B: Fighter A throws 40 punches in the round landing 8 clean and 27 on the gloves or forearms and misses with 5. Of the 8 landed punches 5 are jabs, 3 are power shots. Fighter B thows 20 punches he lands 14 with 8 jabs and 6 power shots. Fighter A's Jabs rock Fighter B's head back and his Power shots visible shake Fighter B up. Fighter B's shots do not seem to be affecting Fighter A at all. Who controls the striking?

In this example, I think we can agree it is Fighter A even though he landed less punches.

Grappling can best be thought of an amalgamation of Sub attempts, Position and takedowns.

Grappling example A: Fighter A takes down Fighter B with a big slam. He proceeds to lay in Fighter B's guard. Fighter B has an active open guard where he attempts 7 submissions. 1 submission is nearly locked.

In example A Fighter B controls the grappling based on the sub attempts. Fighter A scored on the takedown but was overshadowed by the sub attempts.

Grappling example B: Fighter A takes Fighter B down hard and lands in Fighter B's guard. Fighter A stays active and attempts to gain better position, gaining half guard twice. Fighter B attempts 3 subs which are defended well and moves well on the bottom. The fight is stood up twice during the round and each time it follows the same pattern as above.

Example B is a little harder to score. Fighter B is still doing a good job on the bottom and Fighter A is not doing a whole lot on top. IN the example above, I would give the grappling to Fighter A based on the takedowns. Niether has really dominated on the ground so the difference is the takedowns. This is where a lot of controversy begins.

Aggression and Octagon control are subjective and as such really up to the opinion of the individual judge. Striking and Grappling are sort of a numbers thing but Aggression and Octagon Control really come down to who presents the impression that they are controlling the action. They are often the same thing but often they are at odds. This is the case with counter punchers and really defensive fighters. The best example I can think of that involves total control (or to use Boxing terminology "Ring generalship" which is so much cooler) was Pernell Whitaker. When he fought De la hoya, he controlled the fight with his defense and counter punching IMO. He made Oscar miss and countered effectively but Oscar won the fight primarily on Aggression ( and the fact that he is Oscar De La Hoya). Teddy Atlas (one of the great boxing minds and the best boxing commentator IMO) will often bring this up during his telecasts. To use another example, in the Griffen/Ortiz fight Griffen was the aggressor but he was not effective in his aggression do to Ortiz's defense and slick counter punching.

I hope this wil open up some good discussion on scoring fights because a lot of people here don't seem to understand how fights are scored. We are pretty lucky that MMA does not have the kind of robberies that boxing does (yet) but if you want to claim someone one a fight it would be nice if you had something better to back it up then "He went to the bar, while the winner went to the hospital".

lostchild · 09-01-2006, 11:17 AM

Yeah, I'm gonna pay $35+ for a PPV and watch it with the sound off…

Arlovski_tko · 09-01-2006, 11:18 AM

thanks for the input, point taken. i dont care what anybody says, i think griffin beat ortiz

DonkeyPunchh916 · 09-01-2006, 11:33 AM

I know its hard for me to say this but Tito deff lost, to forrest and Vitor

Tony Manifold · 09-01-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostchild

Yeah, I'm gonna pay $35+ for a PPV and watch it with the sound off…

Hey I don't watch it with the sound off either. I re-watch with the sound off or if I am watching a fight I know ended with controversy for the first time. If you are enjoying the fight, enjoy the fight. If you are trying to score the fight watch it with the sound off.

DonkeyPunchh916 · 09-01-2006, 11:42 AM

Its kinda sad when we watch UFC that we have to take in effect that UFC wants certain people to win and thats how they describe the fight as it goes down, "OHhh what a right hand! Joe this might be the best GnP we have ever seen in the Octogon, EVER, and another Elbow, and another and another, He is raining down Elbows" then Joe adds over Goldsluts voice "He's Rocked"

Skyline21 · 09-01-2006, 11:49 AM

Tito - Belfort
Tito - Forrest
Ricco - Nog
Yves - Franca 1
Hunt - Wand
Hendo - Kondo

these fights all have one thing in common. Depending on who ur talkin to one owned the other outrught. What has happened to the concept of a draw!

Skyline21 · 09-01-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyPunchh916

I know its hard for me to say this but Tito deff lost, to forrest and Vitor

definitely to vitor

probably to forrest

jerseynomercey · 09-01-2006, 11:55 AM

gsp def lost to penn

DonkeyPunchh916 · 09-01-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyline21

Tito - Belfort
Tito - Forrest
Ricco - Nog
Yves - Franca 1
Hunt - Wand
Hendo - Kondo

these fights all have one thing in common. Depending on who ur talkin to one owned the other outrught. What has happened to the concept of a draw!

This is America People, We like Winners and losers, we dont like draws, we dont understand equality. There is no inbetween for us, your either a winner or a loser...
People want to root for underdogs. People want to nuthug.