a Question for Machida Fans

[Pinkfloyder]

Originally Posted by Last Samurai

lol, an "intellectual" Machida fan isn't going to feed your trolling.


this topic has been overdone. focus on the rematch.

Well I believe this not trolling. I am really curious based on what Did Machida fans score it for him. If you have an answer you can share it if not and find me trolling then dont post on this thread

You can check answers like KimuraT15 answers.

Hope this clarifies.

[lolcat15]

it was paper thin close and judges will always favor the champion. machida will take the rematch i think

[jmag]

I'm a Machida fan and at the end of the fight I thought Shogun had the decision. After rewatching the fight several times I went back and forth. The fight was a draw or Machida or Shogun won.

[KimuraT15]

Originally Posted by jmag

I'm a Machida fan and at the end of the fight I thought Shogun had the decision. After rewatching the fight several times I went back and forth. The fight was a draw or Machida or Shogun won.

Indeed. Personally I think it should have been a draw to avoid any "robbery" so the rematch would provide a real answer.

[juggernautakira]

Originally Posted by KimuraT15

Not a Machida fan but I think many of his hits were ignored because of:
1-biased commentators so, the judges heard the commentators? or the spectators? either way, turn in it down or turn it up, doesnt change what we saw
2-we're not used to seeing Machida getting hit often so anything less than the dominant performances we saw before= Machida losing, overrated etc. he is overrated and running from strikes isnt anything to admire. if hes less than dominant, thats 1 thing, but if he got pummeled, well, then he lost.
3-Like I said his hits were ignored. Many times when Shogun kicked or punches him Machida returned one himself as well. not all the time, in fact, shogun was countering machida here and there

Having said that, it's the extra "You gotta beat the champion convincingly" that edged him out.again, forrest didnt beat the champ and he got the belt. that line of reasoning has been dispelled

This is fruitless with a rematch on the way.

Shogun did win, but you gotta wonder who took more from that fight. They both know their opponent well now, so its gonna come down to intelligence and or HEART.

Does Machida step it up to prove hes the champ and silent the crowd's opinion on him?

Does Shogun use what worked and bring it up a notch to finish the job and take what was rightfully his?

Its a tough call. One, if not both fighters can do both tactics and end up with another decision. OR. One can go too far while the other takes advantage of such aggressiveness.

Ive NEVER liked Machida, but I cant deny that what hes been doing has worked.

[Pinkfloyder]

Thanks guys for sharing your answers.

What was really confusing was , did Machida land those counters flush and Shogun just has an Iron Chin or most of them missed.Based on Rogan and Goldie's comments, it seems they werent landing that well because they are right at ringside and they should see more than anyone who saw on PPV

[juggernautakira]

Originally Posted by lolcat15

it was paper thin close and judges will always favor the champion. machida will take the rematch i think

Ok, this has got to stop. It wasnt paper thin and it wont be paper thin. Paper thin to ME is when you dont know which way it will go. In other words, 2 rounds go clearly to 1 side and 1 to whomever. Now thats a paper thin fight.

[juggernautakira]

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyder

Thanks guys for sharing your answers.

What was really confusing was , did Machida land those counters flush and Shogun just has an Iron Chin or most of them missed.Based on Rogan and Goldie's comments, it seems they werent landing that well because they are right at ringside and they should see more than anyone who saw on PPV

Who knows where they are now, but around the time of the fight, there were plenty of slow motion captures and some strikes were flush.

[steveflynn]

[quote=Zeicon;34128276]LATEST NEWS: One of the three judges admits that he scored the bout incorrectly in favor of Machida and that Shogun was indeed the real winner upon rewatching the fight:

Fighting a restrictive MMA judging system - UFC - Yahoo! Sports




First things first:

- The audience was largely in favor of Machida before the fight. After the decision was announced, the only thing you could hear was boos, boos and more boos.

- Rogan and Goldberg gave the fight to Shogun.




Dana White: "I thought Shogun won"

Link:
Dana White "I thought Shogun won the fight." [video]




MMA journalists, websites:

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
CompuStrike: Rua outlanded Machida 89-50 in Total Strikes landed including 73 Leg Strikes landed. Rua dominated the fight and did just about everything he needed to do to beat the undefeated Machida, including outlanding Machida in every round, but apparently it wasn't enough for the judges.
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science: 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
411mania.com: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
MMAConvert: Rua ("Machida was given a gift")
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
Sports Illustrated (thanks jamers):
Ben Fowlkes - Rua ("They say you have to clearly beat the champion if you want to take his belt. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua seemed to have done just that at UFC 104 on Saturday night, but the mere fact that UFC light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida was still conscious at the end was apparently enough for the judges to give him the victory")
Joss Gross: 48-47 Rua
MMARising / Robert Sargeant (thanks TheEnigma): 49-46 Rua
FightLine: 49-46 Rua (thanks karatelarusso)
Loretta Hunt (thanks On Letting Go): Rua ("I am very disappointed in the decision. Very upsetting. The sport owes Mauricio "Shogun" Rua a big apology.")
TATAME (thanks Radamantis): "Maurício “Shogun” Rua was the underdog, but the 2005 Pride GP champion “surprised” everybody with a perfect strategy and performance, dominating three out of five rounds against Lyoto Machida, but losing by unanimous decision (48-47)."



Pro fighters who thought Shogun won:

- Anthony Johnson (post-fight conference)
- Joe Stevenson (post-fight conference)
- Cain Velasquez (post-fight conference)
- Shane Carwin (via Twitter)
"great night of fights. further proof you have to finish as the judges just can't score MMA"
- Denis Kang (via Twitter)
"Shogun got robbed last night IMO."
- Efrain Escudero (via Twitter)
"I'm sorry but shogun won that fight easy"
- Kenny Florian (via Twitter)
"I love Machida but Shogun won that fight!!"
- Joe Lauzon (via Twitter)
"I think Shogun won it."
- Frank Trigg
"he [Shogun] got robbed, was looking 4 don king"
- Roy Nelson
"I just lost $5 on shogun, I am mad, shogun won 4 rounds to 1"
- Joe Doerkson
"Shogun won four rounds out of five ... I am disgusted."
- Brendan Schaub
"Shogun won that fight."
- Jorge Gurgel
"Wow. I was cheering for Machida, but believe Shogun just got robbed... That is the very worst feeling in the world."
- BJ Penn (via Facebook)
"Did Shogun win? yeah."
- Rampage Jackson (via his website)
"Shogun getting robbed like that was pretty cut throat"
- Jon Jones (via Twitter)
"Watched it again this morning and still just saying wow. I guess the next guy might just need to bring a sword"
- Ben Henderson (via Twitter)
"To me that was a bad decision. Rua was more active and the aggressor."
- Kit Cope (via Twitter)
"What?!?! That was the worst robbery I have seen in the UFC ever!!!"
- Jake Shields (via Twitter)
"Even though Shogun should have won that fight!"
- Miguel Torres (via Twitter)
"Shogun is back. Very impressed, Muay Thai 1, Karate 0."
- Cameron Dollar? (via Twitter)
"Man the ufc judging tonight was garbage"
- Jay Silva (via Twitter)
"Ufc 104 was okay rua won the fight but u all know u gotta bit the camp 2 be a champ, but wht about the rampage fight hmmmm"
- Matt Brown (via Twitter)
"Shogun def robbed, but after a 2nd watch it was closer than I thought at first. I gave Machida rd 1 & MAYBE rd 3. Just my two cents..."
- Tiki Ghosn (via Twitter)
"Karate doesn't work against Muay Thai"
- Frank Shamrock (via Twitter)
"Shogun won that fight"
- Antonio Silva
- Vitor Belfort (TATAME.com)
"UFC judges aren’t good to judge. To beat the champion, you only have to win, it doesn’t matter how."
- Rickson Gracie (according to Shogun)
- Randy Couture
"Shogun won 4 rounds."
- Wanderlei Silva (training partner)
"he [Machida] did not do enough to win the fight"
- Rashad Evans (MMA Live)
- Marcus Jones (MMA Live)
- Dave Meltzer
- Tito Ortiz (MMA Connected)
"I gave 4 of 1 rounds to Shogun as well."


Pro fighters who thought Machida won:

- Josh Thomson (via Twitter)
"Watch the dam fight again. Machida won 3rnds an shogun won the last 2."
- Anderson Silva (Machida's best friend)
"Lyoto won every round." (TATAME.com inteview)





Fight Metric stats:


link: Machida-Shogun




CompuStrike stats / conclusion:


link: CompuStrike - Every Strike Counts




Sherdog forum poll:

link: **EVERYONE WHO THINKS SHOGUN WILL BEAT MACHIDA** sign names here




Sherdog.com poll:

link: Sherdog.com: UFC, Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) News, Results, Fighting



Two of the biggest sites in Brazil (polls)

[Pride fanatic]

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyder

Hey Guys,

Since that fight with Shogun, Most Machida were like "Machida will win again" Machida will finish it this time etc...


I just want an intellectual Loyal Machida fan who can step and say how exactly did Machida won the first fight and based on WHAT?

With facts and numbers and not with "nuthugging"

Try to put urself in a neutral position (not on Shogun's or Machida's side) and if you believe that Machida won the first, justify it.

Thanks.

loyal machida fans have spoken on some of the first 10,000 of these threads... just wait for the rematch and it'll be settled then one way or another