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Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC > Power or Chin?

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Old 08-02-2007, 12:45 AM   #1 (permalink)

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Power or Chin?

Best striker and Best chin threads always show up. Obviously a lot of stock is put on having a big finishing shot, though given a choice, MMA/Boxing/Street, I would rather have a strong chin. Then I'd work on developing some other strength, such as striking technique or gnp, to some above-average level.

By "chin" I'm referring to the entire legal-to-strike area of the head which would exclude the back. In sports like football and basketball you often hear commentators say you can't teach "fast" (speed) and for the most part you also can't teach "chin." Granite chins might be the rarest of fighter breeds. Either you're born with one or not and few are "blessed" as such. It is a great equalizer in that no matter how big/small, tall/short, skilled/unskilled you are, if you get struck hard enough on the sweet spot of the jaw or the temples, you're going down.

Chin Area/Region

First, I won't claim to know what the relationship between JAW size/structure and KO tolerance is. Second, though I don't know whether its legit, I heard a medical analysis revealed that former boxing mw champ, "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
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never ko'd in 67 pro bouts
had TEMPORAL BONES about 1 1/2 times larger than the average human. Once again, how many dudes are born like that?

Training/Chemical Aids

You can pump iron, jog, shadowbox, or grapple all you want, but it will never change the universal kryptonite or Achilles Heel that is the chin. You can't do bench presses or curls for your chin. Neck muscles exercises can help, but I believe genetic nerve structure and responsiveness primarily determine KO tolerance, in other words, stronger neck muscles wouldn't make a dramatic difference. Funny as it looks, one possibly effective chin training technique is Fedor's dizzy lizzy (those crazy Ruskies).

Not even steroids can protect your chin (Eg. Johnnie Morton/Bernard Ackah; De La Hoya/Vargas). At the DLH/Vargas weigh-in it was awesome when roided-up and ripped Vargas flexed on the scales, and built like a stork DLH's response was to point at his own chin as if to say that that didn't change. DLH ko'd Vargas. Roids may have caused Barry Bonds' dome to grow (heard they can cause the bone plates in the skull to expand over time) but I'm certain he didn't improve his ability to take a jaw shot.

KO percentage can be improved to some extent through proper training. Balance, positioning, etc. can all contribute to increasing the knockout potential of one's punches and kicks. I'd choose to Hunt's chin over probably the single most devastating weapon in MMA today, Mirko's LHK. This isn't a pro-Hunt thread. He and Mirko are just good examples for my argument.

Strategies Available To Ironheads

Strong-chinned fighters can go far when they develop at least one other skill/attribute, such as submission/endurance/etc, to at least a slightly above average level (Eg. Nog in Pride, Hunt in K-1, Rampage in UFC). Many believe Hunt is THE nightmare matchup for any striker because he seems impervious to harm. Muhammad Ali is considered the greatest boxing HW mainly for his offensive skills but a sh*tload of people aren't aware he also had a great chin (this was recently recognized in a boxing mag as Ali made top five all time). Same goes for Mike Tyson who never went down from a single shot but always required a ton of punishment to be stopped. Crocop or Shogun could unleash all the picture perfect and fancy kicks n' combos they can against Hunt but in all likelihood the best they'd accomplish is knocking Hunt down. One of the hardest punchers in MMA history, Igor Vovchanchyn, didn't even get a chance to throw his bombs because of Crocop's two-by-four to his face. I believe this same blow would not have stopped Hunt, who was able to continue in seconds after a Crocop shin sandwich in K-1 and BOTH an LHK and Axe Kick in Pride.

With the right gameplan, fighters have survived (through running or in Tyson vs Bonecrusher Smith, clinched for dear life) matches with powerful strikers (Fedor/Crocop). Tex Cobb's cement head allowed him to survive long enough for the notoriously low gas tank of Earnie Shavers (boxing's hardest hitter of all time) to prevent him from answering the eighth round bell. Fortunately for Hunt, he has the best of two worlds in that he can bang with the best and take heavy shots. Ali, never known as a KO artist, more than made up for his lack of power with lightning quickness. He survived murderous punching George Foreman by taking Big George's best shots, waiting for him to gas, then delivering a few well-placed shots of his own to KO George.

The other danger with Hunt is he's always moving forward. A starkly different picture would be a counter-striking Hunt a la Crocop and Liddell, which would probably be less effective. But because Mark knows he could take alot, he's ever in the Rocky Marciano/Joe Frazier mode, boxers whose style was to be willing to take two, three shots in order to land one their haymakers. Hunt's chin and style is enough to put even the most dangerous striker, Crocop, on his bike. Its discouraging and demoralizing to know your best shots could be weathered by your opponent and all it takes is one of his to end the game.

Summary

A fighter doesn't need great power to achieve a KO. I think a fighter with a strong chin can go far given the training for a more well-rounded fight game. Who can argue a Hunt with strong grappling would be practically unstoppable? Quinton Jackson seems to be following this path what with his improved boxing, good wrestling, and granite chin. Along with the examples above, in Dan (Chin/Wrestling) vs Wand, and Couture (Chin/Wrestling) vs Sylvia, we have seen that a fighter with a granite chin and average power and good technique, need only work (in Hunt's case, bore) his way in and at the right distance fire off a combo or two that results in a well-placed shot or two to the sweet spot resulting in major damage or better yet, a knockout.

Powerful strike or Strong Chin. Which would you prefer?
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:47 AM   #2 (permalink)

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chin. you cant learn how to have a strong chin, but you can learn how to punch harder and more on target.
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HW: mark hunt, fedor, barnett, frye
LHW: rampage, babalu, manhoef
MW: anderson silva, kang
WW: gsp
LW: penn, genki, kid yamamoto
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:48 AM   #3 (permalink)

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Jeez those brackets came out way bigger than i thought.
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