Save
Random Shot: 
 

Welcome to the Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

 

Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC > No way Hughes is #6 WW

Reply
 
Sherdog Forums
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-23-2008, 07:47 PM   #21 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
NastyNate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 628
Status: NastyNate is offline
Sorry Matt, Hughes is just better.
__________________
6'6 means nothing if you got a glass jaw
NastyNate is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Old 06-23-2008, 08:03 PM   #22 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 105
Status: WeightClass is offline
If Matt Hughes is top ten then here's barely top ten. Matt Serra is definately not top ten.

If you have Matt Hughes or Matt Serra on your top ten instead of...

in no particular order...

Koshcheck
Diego
Alves
Thompson
Shields
Condit
GSP
David Baron
Fitch


Then your list is whack.

WW is so stacked that nobody in the top ten should be coming off a loss.
WeightClass is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:09 PM   #23 (permalink)

Purple Belt
 
miggetymike1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,127
Status: miggetymike1 is online now
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeightClass View Post
If Matt Hughes is top ten then here's barely top ten. Matt Serra is definately not top ten.

If you have Matt Hughes or Matt Serra on your top ten instead of...

in no particular order...

Koshcheck
Diego
Alves
Thompson
Shields
Condit
GSP
David Baron
Fitch


Then your list is whack.

WW is so stacked that nobody in the top ten should be coming off a loss.

I've never heard anyone put David baron in a top ten. I think Swick might need to be higher than him.
__________________
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

"Don't turn your back on wisdom, for she will protect you. Love her, and she will guard you."

-proverbs 4-6
miggetymike1 is online now  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:20 PM   #24 (permalink)

Brown Belt
 
Gunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Windy City
Posts: 3,387
Status: Gunny is offline
I think Roan should be six. F***ing Americans conspiring against Brazilians FTL.
__________________
CHOKE YOURSELF!!!
Gunny is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:22 PM   #25 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7
Status: DaRunner is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by miggetymike1 View Post
sherdog has Hughes #6 in their current rankings. What a joke.

Sherdog always says that their rankings are based on what have you done for me lately so what has Hughes done lately compared to other WW's?

Matt Serra: #8 on sherdog. Both him and Hughes have a loss to GSP and a decission over Lytle. So let's put those two aside and look at their differences: Serra has a win over GSP and Hughes has a loss to GSP and a loss to Alves!!! I understand that rankings are somewhat subjective but how can two convincing losses be better than one win?

Can anyone make a case that Hughes should be ranked above Serra using sherdogs what have you done for me lately criteria?

Good Luck
My guess is that whoever did the rankings viewed Serra's win over GSP as a fluke - and judging from what happened in their second fight, I'd say they were probably right. I will agree that Hughes is just not as dominant as he used to be, but I guess I don't see why you think Serra should be ranked above him? I don't really think Serra is that good from everything I've seen...of course, I might just be biased since I really can't stand Serra's whining about Hughes' attitude when he does the same thing only 10 times worse.

I also think that it's probably tough to drop Hughes out of the top 10 when he has been such a dominant force for such a long time. Maybe they are like me and wish Hughes would somehow get back to his old form
DaRunner is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:23 PM   #26 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8
Status: Grumpy Old Man is offline
It’s not easy to rank fighters; threads like this prove it. Even people who know a whole lot about fighting (and I am NOT one of them) disagree about who should be ranked where, and there’s a lot of subjectivity involved.

As an experiment, I tried ranking fighters on a different basis. I don’t know enough to judge how “good “ a fighter is, so I did not try. Instead, I worked out a mathematical method that ranks fighters based on nothing but fight results. I applied the method to the UFC welterweight division, and the results don’t look too bad.

Here is (roughly) how the method works. The inputs are the results of all official UFC welterweight fights in the past three years. The outputs are “ratings” for all fighters who have won at least one fight. Each rating depends on the sum of the “fight scores” for the fights which that fighter won. The fight score of each fight depends on whether it ended by stoppage or decision; when it happened; and the rating of the loser. Stoppages score higher than decisions; more recent fights score higher than “older” fights; and winning over a higher rated fighter scores higher than winning over a lower rated fighter.

Finally, a fighter with only one or two fights gets a reduced rating, simply because there isn’t enough of a record to draw a solid conclusion.

Because the input depends partly on the output, the method is partly circular. If you’re mathematically inclined, you have noticed that the algorithm has to iterate until it converges.

Which it did, producing the results shown below for the UFC welterweight division. There are 51 fighters who won at least one fight, and so were rated by the method. The algorithm forces the average rating to equal 100. Here are the top 15 as calculated using this method:

1. Georges St. Pierre 151
2. Jon Fitch 140
3. Thiago Alves 128
4. Matt Serra 128
5. Josh Koscheck 126
6. Dustin Hazelett 113
7. Mike Swick 112
8. Diego Sanchez 108
9. Marcus Davis 107
10. Roan Carneiro 105
11. Kevin Burns 105
12. Drew Fickett 104
13. Josh Burkman 103
14. Tony DeSouza 103
15. Karo Parisyan 103

I am not claiming that this ranking is better than any other, and I am certainly not claiming that I have any insight into the fighters’ skill levels. There’s no point in flaming me on those grounds. I think it is interesting, however, to see that the mathematical approach does give me results that are similar (at least partly) to some people’s rankings.

It’s also interesting to see why the method put certain fighters in certain places:

Matt Serra: His KO of GSP is the one single fight that pushes his rating up.
Dustin Hazelett: Defeated Josh Burkman by stoppage, which helps his rating a lot.
Mike Swick: Wins over Josh Burkman and Marcus Davis by decision.
Roan Carneiro: Defeated Tony DeSouza by stoppage.
Kevin Burns: Defeated Roan Carneiro by stoppage, but has only one fight.
Drew Fickett: Defeated Josh Koscheck by stoppage, but that was a long time ago.
Karo Parisyan: Defeated Josh Burkman and Drew Fickett, but by decision and not recently.
BJ Penn: Not rated – he only fought two welterweight fights in the last three years, and lost both times.
__________________
Grumpy
Grumpy Old Man is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:28 PM   #27 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay City
Posts: 924
Status: mmafightclub is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by miggetymike1 View Post
Josh Gross (who was in charge of organizing the sherdog rankings) has continuously said this. That's partly how they justified moving Serra straight to #1 after he beat GSP but don't get me started on that!
Putting Serra #1 was a f....... joke
mmafightclub is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:28 PM   #28 (permalink)

Purple Belt
 
miggetymike1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,127
Status: miggetymike1 is online now
Interesting that Matt hughes isn't even ranked in the top 15 based on the statistical approach from the guy above this post.

That just lends more evidence that he is artificially high because of how he used to dominate 5 years ago.
__________________
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

"Don't turn your back on wisdom, for she will protect you. Love her, and she will guard you."

-proverbs 4-6
miggetymike1 is online now  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:32 PM   #29 (permalink)

Green Belt
 
Early Cuyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dougal County, Georgia
Posts: 1,062
Status: Early Cuyler is offline
He will be a lot lower after Matt Serra knocks him out.
__________________
How does it taste? Like the untamed Wilditude of nature erupting into the space where your brain used to live. Take a drink, you'll see...but not for long!
Early Cuyler is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 08:32 PM   #30 (permalink)

White Belt
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8
Status: Grumpy Old Man is offline
It depends on a judgment call: How much weight you put on the "age" of a fight. I didn't even include fights that are more than three years old. If I included older fights, and if I gave the age of a fight less weight in calculating the fight score, Hughes would probably do better.
__________________
Grumpy
Grumpy Old Man is offline  | 
 
   
Reply With Quote

Reply


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/no-way-hughes-6-ww-802938/
Posted By For Type Date
The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums This thread Refback 06-23-2008 09:02 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GSP was NOT dominating Hughes Newb The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 192 08-10-2008 12:18 AM
Matt Hughes and Robbie lawer are leaving MFS! gothhead The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 41 12-23-2007 12:17 PM
How will UFC figure a way to stop the GSP vs Hughes match? PrideUFCKOTC The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 46 04-30-2007 07:25 PM
OFFICIAL UFC 63 Sig/Av Betting Discussion Thread irishman Fight Spoiler Forum 238 09-26-2006 06:11 AM
Gsp dominated hughes before the armbar? BigMachine27 The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC 45 08-01-2006 10:18 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version {1. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008 Sherdog.com | Privacy Policy | Click here to advertise on Sherdog