[SnakeEyes]

These days, calling someone out on being a new fan (a.k.a a TUF/Spike bandwagon rider) seems to be a popular flame on these boards. I've had to point out to a poster recently, whitebelts and noobies have been bemoaning their treatment on these forums for as long as whitebelts and noobs have existed. This treatment will likely continue until the last of the true vets dies, and no one remains who can recall the first exciting days of the great sport of MMA. Many of these younger fans likely resent the often condescending tones of older (and usually much more knowledgable) fans and members, and in light of many recent upsets and rising stars the credibility of the old guard seems to have come into question. While it is obvious that the sport is indeed changing, there is a history here on these forums that newer members and fans likely don't appreciate, but should. What a lot of them simply don't get is that the people who were frequenting these boards back in the day are in many ways responsible for the strength of the sport today, and in many ways "saved" MMA in its tender, fledgeling years. Here are some things worth considering when looking back at that time, which was really not so long ago at all, but seems so to many of us:

1) We had to do our homework. If you were a fan of MMA before the TUF explosion, and especially a couple years before that, you had your work cut out for you to keep up with the sport. You couldn't buy Pride and UFC DVDs at your local HMV, for the most part you couldn't even rent them. Torrents and Youtube didn't exist, downloading took nearly forever and most stuff was hard or impossible to find. Many of us relied on fans living in Asia for our Pride DLs before UFC popularity made it worthwhile for local bars to show PrideFc on PPV. I myself started out buying old VHS's from Rogers Video during the time before UFC got its PPV airings back. The sport was constantly under attack by the media when they did choose to give it exposure, and actually banned in many states and provinces of N. America.

Beyond that, small organizations were even harder to keep tabs on. An event like KOTC or the IFL would never have gotten TV broadcasting back then, let alone Canadian products like TKO. Television has undergone the same kind of blow-out that the internet has in recent years, with many competing networks like Spike and HDNet offering exclusive access to many smaller independent organizations. In my day, it was like christmas when I found an old WCC VHS in some weird trash bin at the Wallmart, or an Asian market with a VHS rental section would actually have some pirated K1 on its racks.

2) Being a fan meant more than just MMA. Back when the UFC/PrideFc rivalries were starting up, real fans payed attention to affiliate sports and competitions when choosing their favorites. If you were gonna back Arona against someone, you likely had watched his many performances in Abhu Dhabi. When Crocop came in to PrideFc, you knew what his record was like in K1 and knew that he wasn't their greatest fighter ever, as many MMA fans now seem to think. If you were excited to see BJ Penn bust on to the scene, you likely followed his wins in the Mundials, and were probably expecting a little more out of Werdum when he came around. We used to have members on here with disgustingly extensive knowledge on professional Muay Thai alone (like SilverWolf). Which brings me to my next point:

3) We (mostly) actually trained. While this is probably true of many members still today (old and new), it was a much more likely scenario earlier on. Because the media access to MMA was so small, many of the people who took the time to research it and find the fights were genuinely interested in martial arts, and not just the spectacle of a popular sport. A large portion of the arguments and threads in the earlier days had titles like "BJJ vs. Karate?" or "Does TKD work in MMA?". Believe it or not, there was a time when boxers and wrestlers were still doubted on these forums, because initially it was kickboxers and jiu-jitsu/pankration stylists who sought out MMA. Many people were drawn to MMA because it highlighted the Muay Thai or BJJ they were lucky to be able to train in.

Aside fom growth of the sport, the martial arts (especially mixed martial arts) franchise has exploded as well. I almost spat my coffee out when I read that my local community center in Poco, BC was offering BJJ classes this year. When I got into MMA I knew there was a Thai gym or two in town, but I couldn't find any BJJ. Nowdays if you live within driving distance of a decent sized city you are guaranteed to find an MMA gym, or at least a BJJ or Thai academy. The difference between now and then is that back then it was a sport appreciated and supported by martial arts enthusiasts who loved to see mixed Nhb action (hence the combined interest in things like ADCC and K1). Now its a sport supported by a huge media arsenal and an MMA fan base. This is a big difference.

4) Finally, the internet community that supported MMA was tighter, more educated, and meaner. It used to be that pro fighters would actually come on these boards and argue or talk with their fans and detractors. Vets on here had a certain credibilty because basically if they were old on the forums in say, 2002, they very often had followed the sport from the very beginning (something many people say is true of themselves but is most often a lie- it's untrue for me, I've only been following since UFC 19, before that I was too young to have seen it). People gripe thesedays about Sherdog being a mean forum full of assholes, and this blows my mind. The rules around here have been steadily building to forum a fairly cushy place for a fan base to chat. No Dana bashing regulations, thewasteland, countless bans for fighter bashing, guys coming on here everyday for the first time writing cheesy little "hellos" to the site, and receiving almost none of the usual flammage they would have gotten in the old days.

The fracturing of the forums into area-specific boards is basically as new as the TUF onslaught, and the reasoning is likely too many posters. Now the forum with the most discussion is basically a UFC hype board, with kickboxing enthusiasts and grappling afficianados being abandoned to lonely forums barely anybody frequents. Personally, I think this has lead to a decline in atmosphere. Gone are the days when MMA fandom was a multi-faceted experience that set you apart from your average Joe. Now every idiot I went to highschool with wears a UFC t-shirt to work and runs his mouth on how "badass" Keith Jardine is. Members have no perspective on greatness, barely realise how awesome something like Hendo returning to the UFC with a Pride MW belt really is, and pine over "tough questions" like whether Diego Sanchez or Josh Koscheck will ever be champions. Many new fans don't understand our frustrations when we yell at them for doubting Fedor or Nogueira, basically because they can't even imagine a time when both these men were virtual unknowns in the sport. It's getting so that I sometimes miss the occasional idiot asking whether or not Rickson really is P4P the best there is (the reason the wasteland was originally created).

In the end, growth for the sport is something we all wanted when it was struggling to get off its feet. I was genuinely excited about the creation of the show, but the sudden crazyness of TUFer domination on these forums kept me away for a long time. The effect was immediate and for many of us pretty shitty. I still feel as though Dana White did more for his own company and product than he did for MMA as a whole, but it is exciting to start to see some cohesiveness, I suppose, and we are getting the fights we always wanted, even if many of the stars from the MMA Cold War era are mere shadows of their former selves. And after years of trying to convince people around me for years that MMA was the greatest sport ever invented, only to be ignored or rebuked, it's pretty weird to go to my local and not be able to find a seat to watch the latest PPV. Bozo fans are a factor in any sport, but they used to occupy a much smaller percentage of MMA fandom.

I don't want to whine that myself or other veteran fans aren't being appreciated for their knowledge and loyalty from the beginning, but it stings when we see the boards so overflowing with opinions whose stupidity and ignorance would have been so obvious even just a few years ago. The fact that a search on Youtube for 'UFC' yields 10 plus pages of kids in tapout shorts rough-houing in their backyards gives you an idea of how disproportionate the representation for MMA really is; like the moniker K1 in Japan, modern fans see the current popularity of the UFC as the be all and end all of mixed martial arts. The history and development of this product is completely lost on the new generation, and sadly, they will never know what they've been missing.

[ShadBo]

Too much self glorification.

Being a fan of the sport is a great thing, regardless of whether or not you had to download your MMA through some asian contact you met on an online board.

You're clinging to a notion, a memory, something intangible that wasn't really that great to begin with. Did you really prefer it when no one knew about the sport and when you had a hard time finding a good fight to watch? I hardly think so.

When it comes to fighters, things change. Why is it wrong for people to question a fighter thats having a rough patch in their career? Especially if that fighter is falling behind the newest generation. That's how the fight game works my friend.

Many of us 'new' fans have been combat sport fans for years, double digit years! We might not have been there when Cro Cop knocked out Dos Caras Jr, but that doesn't mean we're unable to appreciate the history behind the sport. 13 years is not a long time when it comes to sports. MMA is still in its infancy.

You can't miss what you never had.

Frankly, I'd hate to have been a fan during the dark days.

[jerzey devil]

I'm not sure that making people feel inferior to you will get you much support.

I've been a lurker since around 2003. Since then, this place has indeed become a very popular place. I think it would be better to welcome newer fans.

[popdevouer]

Long winded but a good read. I dont know where I fall in... I was exposed to the first 4 UFCs around 1995 or so - I was probably 9 or 10 years old. I followed it all I could back then as well as trained in BJJ.

[Slabby]

Some of us "noobies" have been watching since UFC 1, and own the original pride grand prix when it was released.

Belt count means nothing. Some people may have either not found this site, not been interested in posting, or both.

Credibility is in the eye of the beholder. Someone who actually tries to educate and be an ambassador for the sport to the new fans rather than bashes them at every turn has more credibility in my eyes. Those that make long winded posts to put themselves over as better than others do not.

The growth is a great thing for the sport. I you can go be the minority in the curling forums.

[WUchi]

i think his real gripe is when new fans come here and spout their mouth unapologetically with uninformed stupidity (pride fighters exposed, etc.) and don't get any backlash from it because so many other new fans believe it or don't understand the truth, history or have any respect.

and i agree.

[DefiantBliss]

Extremely well written and an interesting read. But I just feel like you came across as patting yourself on the back a bit too much in there man... But really. Worth the read. I like to think that although I'm new on here I still do have some good points to make from time to time.

[Reddbull]

This is the typical "When I was your age...I had to walk 32 miles in the snow with no shoes!!" argument...and yeah, making people feel inferior will not garner support...I'm sorry that I haven't been a fan as long as you have, but fuck off if you're telling me that you're more of a fan than I am...on that logic it's like saying I'm not a real fan of basketball cuz I wasn't around when the sport was first invented...get off your high cloud, instead of bashing new fans, why don't you help educate them? That is originally why I started posting here, so that I would learn more about the sport...before I started posting here I didn't eve know who Fedor was...now I've gone back and watched almost all his PRIDE fights...but people bashing others for being white belts, TUF noobs or because they didn't start watching MMA in 1993 is retarded

I'm a TUF NEWB and proud of it....BEEYOTCH!!

[jnotrizzle]

I know you say you don't want to whine, but I don't get it.

Back in the hardcore days, it was hard to find discussion in general.

Grappling and kickboxing were integrated in with general MMA, but they didn't have a choice then, and they do now.

I usually see between 15-25 on in the sub-forums, which is about five times the amount of people who were actually talking about it in the old days.

And because the forums was broken up in to sub-forums because of traffic, you think it's become disconnected here? I think you've become disconnected with the present, and you're still trying to play out that 2002, where dial-up ruled and Sherdog was new.

I understand where you are coming from, but evolve with the times, don't be that Mark Coleman that wishes everything could go back to how it used to be. Get used to it, ignore the assholes and trolls, no matter how many there are, and you can still find good, quality discussion at Sherdog.

[jnotrizzle]

Originally Posted by WUchi

i think his real gripe is when new fans come here and spout their mouth unapologetically with uninformed stupidity (pride fighters exposed, etc.) and don't get any backlash from it because so many other new fans believe it or don't understand the truth, history or have any respect.

and i agree.

Who cares if the new fans log on thinking they're hot shit because they think UFC is the only thing going? As fans, why should we care what uneducated idiots think? I don't care that people think Keith Jardine is the second coming of Liddell and that Cro Cop is some foreign nobody who can't hack it, I just know not to talk to them.

You and I know there is good discussion to be had on Sherdog, and the more you ignore the ignorant 'PRIDE sucks!!' threads, the more time you can spend on debating with someone who actually knows a lick about MMA.