My problems with Tim Sylvia.

Matt Thornton · 07-12-2006, 10:39 AM

Okay, this isn't fighter bashing, so please don't card me. I'm not accusing Tim Sylvia of being fat, dumb, etc., I'm just criticizing what I see in him as a fighter and what bothers me and most other MMA fans.

1) Lack of talent/finesse I know obviously he has to have talent, because he'd still wreck me in rolling/sparring, but I mean compared to many other heavyweights. I won't even talk about Pride because that's self-evident. In the UFC division, you have:

-Andrei Arlovski, despite his last two fights, is an AMAZING heavyweight to watch, with extreme quickness and clean technique, and an absolute animal in the octagon.

-Jeff Monson, ADCC champion

-Frank Mir, although out of shape in his last fight, is still an excellent grappler.

-Pe De Pano, BJJ superstar

And then you look at Tim Sylvia. Poor technique standing up, and I've never seen him grapple, except for when his arm broke. He's flat footed, moves slow, and just tries to slug it out. It's really pretty clear that his size and strength is mostly what carries him through competition. Even big strong guys like Coleman and Randleman at least have high proficiency in wrestling. Sylvia doesn't seem to be proficient in much except swinging his fists.

2) Cockiness and Being Full of Self All fighters have to be confident. If you don't believe in yourself, you can't go anywhere. So hyping yourself up to a small degree is acceptable, and saying you're going to beat a guy is completely expected.

Tim Sylvia takes that shit to a new level. There's a difference between believing in yourself before a fight, and just being stupid. I'm sorry, but I don't see ANY possibility of him beating Nogueira or CroCop, let alone Fedor. All three of those guys are at a level of technical proficiency that just so far supercedes what Tim Sylvia is even capable of.

GSP is an example of how a fighter should be. He is in excellent shape, is always improving on a technical scale, and although confident in himself, he sees where he is the underdog. For example, he admits that when he fought Hughes, he was nervous because of how much he respects Hughes as a competitor.

3) Life outside the Octagon You don't have to look far to realize outside the ring, Tim Sylvia isn't exactly an upstanding citizen. People in Ellsworth, Maine know him for constantly getting drunk and getting in barroom fights. I'm not saying he is, but for the most part, people in his home town think he's kind of a dick.

Then there's the steroid issue. He supposedly took Winstrol V to look "ripped" like the other fighters. His reasoning aside, steroids are illegal in the UFC, and that was just immoral. And yes, I know they are used by other fighters, but that doesn't make them right.

However, what I will NOT bash him for is the "fat" thing. When we first saw Sylvia, even though it's not a bodybuilding contest, he looked like a slob. He is working his ass off to improve his physique while still being a good fighter. So I won't bash him for that.

Overall, Sylvia is just not the kind of guy I like to see as a champion. Nothing about him "wows" me or inspires me. As a martial artist, he gives me nothing to look up to or aspire to be. (i.e., I want to be as fast as Arlovski, slick as Nog, throw high kicks like CroCop) He hypes himself up to be way more than he is, when a good fighter would continue to be correcting himself and checking for errors, and he's not exactly a rolemodel citizen.

All of those things combined, sorry Tim, but you're really not going to see me cheering for you anytime soon, unless you're fighting Yvel or Goodridge.

Hickson · 07-12-2006, 10:46 AM

not a classy guy nor is he a good fighter....he is overated and he lost to an overrated AA, then he beat overrated AA, he alos has lost to overarted Mir, whos other biggset win is tank or pete wililams

all are gettign unfair hype just cause they beat each other

Powerhouse26 · 07-12-2006, 10:52 AM

I agree fully. Also his lack of well-rounded standup and ground skill disturbs me greatly. Supposedly I hear from other Miletich fighters that Tim can handle himself on the ground but before he fights he says he is gonna do everything in his power to keep the fight on his feet. Whats up Tim? You sound terrified to go to the ground and you tapped prematurely out of fear when Arlovski locked in that Ankle lock. Now I dont want to bash him because he is a world champion but i believe it is mostly due to his size, reach advantage and excellent timing on his counter punching.

Powerhouse26 · 07-12-2006, 10:54 AM

Tim cant hurt Fedor. I think Fedor can drop his guard and take numerous shots from Tim without a problem. Tim Sylvia is a great counter puncher and has good takedown defense and that is how he wins fights.

Matt Thornton · 07-12-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerhouse26

Tim cant hurt Fedor. I think Fedor can drop his guard and take numerous shots from Tim without a problem. Tim Sylvia is a great counter puncher and has good takedown defense and that is how he wins fights.

Yeah, well if he fought Fedor, hopefully his TD defense is good enough to stop a champion SAMBO fighter and Judoka. CroCop's certainly wasn't, and I've yet to see a better TD defense than his, with the possible exception of Wandy or Chuck.

Wisdom · 07-12-2006, 11:10 AM

iceman5592 you will never achive anything in your life close to what tim has achived,
you are a sour jealous little nerd.

thats the only reply this thread is worthy of, i could comment on your raised points but im not taking the bait of a sad dork internet troll

kcp_ko · 07-12-2006, 11:23 AM

Tim is a top 5 heavyweight.

He may not be the slickest fighter or the fastest but he is good. he is A good counter puncher and knows how to dodge a punch. he has a good chin and heavy hands

most top fighters or champions readily dont admit that they will get destroyed by another competitor. tim firmly beleives he can hang with fedor and thats having confidence in himself. *tim is one of my favorites but fedor would destroy him*

noone has seen tim on the ground because he has great takedown defense. he trains with one of the best camps in the world MFS so he is obviously going to have some skill on the ground.

it makes people days to come on this site and bash sylvia but if tim does beat a top heavyweight they will just be some overrated over hyped figher

Chewy44 · 07-12-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman5592

Okay, this isn't fighter bashing, so please don't card me. I'm not accusing Tim Sylvia of being fat, dumb, etc., I'm just criticizing what I see in him as a fighter and what bothers me and most other MMA fans.

1) Lack of talent/finesse I know obviously he has to have talent, because he'd still wreck me in rolling/sparring, but I mean compared to many other heavyweights. I won't even talk about Pride because that's self-evident. In the UFC division, you have:

-Andrei Arlovski, despite his last two fights, is an AMAZING heavyweight to watch, with extreme quickness and clean technique, and an absolute animal in the octagon.

-Jeff Monson, ADCC champion

-Frank Mir, although out of shape in his last fight, is still an excellent grappler.

-Pe De Pano, BJJ superstar

And then you look at Tim Sylvia. Poor technique standing up, and I've never seen him grapple, except for when his arm broke. He's flat footed, moves slow, and just tries to slug it out. It's really pretty clear that his size and strength is mostly what carries him through competition. Even big strong guys like Coleman and Randleman at least have high proficiency in wrestling. Sylvia doesn't seem to be proficient in much except swinging his fists.

So what you're saying is that inorder to be a MMA fighter you have to be a superior grappler. Well don't tell Chuck, Crocop, or Hunt this. Tim was quite often beating Arlovski to the punch when they fought on Saturday. His game is a standup game, yeah he look flat footed, slow, and sloppy he is also 6'8" and that plays into it quite a bit also. Bottom line is Tim uses what works for him which is really what MMA is all about.

Quote:

2) Cockiness and Being Full of Self All fighters have to be confident. If you don't believe in yourself, you can't go anywhere. So hyping yourself up to a small degree is acceptable, and saying you're going to beat a guy is completely expected.

Tim Sylvia takes that shit to a new level. There's a difference between believing in yourself before a fight, and just being stupid. I'm sorry, but I don't see ANY possibility of him beating Nogueira or CroCop, let alone Fedor. All three of those guys are at a level of technical proficiency that just so far supercedes what Tim Sylvia is even capable of.

GSP is an example of how a fighter should be. He is in excellent shape, is always improving on a technical scale, and although confident in himself, he sees where he is the underdog. For example, he admits that when he fought Hughes, he was nervous because of how much he respects Hughes as a competitor.

I'm not saying he would beat PRIDE's top 3 either but then again no one gage him much of a chance in Sylvia vs Arlovski 2 or 3 and when he fought Ricco. That might be part of the reason Tim is so sure/confident in himself. Someone has to believe in him. Plus he is just a confident person. He visualizes himself winning, there is nothing wrong with that. I respect the hell out of GSP but most sports psycholgists will tell you that if you let yourself become nervous about something there is a good chance you will focus on it, then there is a better then average chance of it happening. What do you want Tim to say "WOW I really think I am inferrior to my opponent and he will probabally beat me."? I'm pretty sure that he works on improving his game too. I don't think Tim is a natural athlete like GSP and others you have mentioned so again he has to work with what he has.

Quote:

3) Life outside the Octagon You don't have to look far to realize outside the ring, Tim Sylvia isn't exactly an upstanding citizen. People in Ellsworth, Maine know him for constantly getting drunk and getting in barroom fights. I'm not saying he is, but for the most part, people in his home town think he's kind of a dick.

1 that was when he was younger, before he joined MFS and moved to Iowa. 2 Where are you getting this information? I have not heard anything about anyone in MAne thinking he did anything outside of what guys in their late teens/young 20s do/did in Maine.

Quote:

Then there's the steroid issue. He supposedly took Winstrol V to look "ripped" like the other fighters. His reasoning aside, steroids are illegal in the UFC, and that was just immoral. And yes, I know they are used by other fighters, but that doesn't make them right.

However, what I will NOT bash him for is the "fat" thing. When we first saw Sylvia, even though it's not a bodybuilding contest, he looked like a slob. He is working his ass off to improve his physique while still being a good fighter. So I won't bash him for that.

So it was a stupid mistake to try and make himself more marketable. He also took full responsibility for it and accepted any and all punishment given to him.

Quote:

Overall, Sylvia is just not the kind of guy I like to see as a champion. Nothing about him "wows" me or inspires me. As a martial artist, he gives me nothing to look up to or aspire to be. (i.e., I want to be as fast as Arlovski, slick as Nog, throw high kicks like CroCop) He hypes himself up to be way more than he is, when a good fighter would continue to be correcting himself and checking for errors, and he's not exactly a rolemodel citizen.

All of those things combined, sorry Tim, but you're really not going to see me cheering for you anytime soon, unless you're fighting Yvel or Goodridge.

You don't have to like him but I think you are selling him pretty short. and as far as the high kicks go ask Tra Telligman about Tim's high kick.

Matt Thornton · 07-12-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisdom

iceman5592 you will never achive anything in your life close to what tim has achived,
you are a sour jealous little nerd.

thats the only reply this thread is worthy of, i could comment on your raised points but im not taking the bait of a sad dork internet troll

Really now. You would quit after one fucking day of my training, pal.

So that takes care of "sour jealous little nerd."

Secondly, I never said Tim Sylvia doesn't deserve the title. I never even contested where he is right now. Tim Sylvia is a tough mother fucker, strong as an ox, and is the undisputed heavyweight champion of the UFC. He trains his ass off with world-class guys, and can throw some real bombs.

I was only pointing out that he's really not my favorite type of fighter to watch. I would rather see someone more technically proficient with a better sense of being a role model as champion. But if Tim's champ, hey, he's champ. I'm just saying, as a fighter, I don't like him that much, and he calls out people who would destroy him.

Ryf0 · 07-12-2006, 11:28 AM

i enjoyed the read. espcially the bit about how nothing tim does you want to add to your own game, its true. all he does is throw, and back up. pretty boring shit.