[popdevouer]

Who here thinks the UFC was the first ever no holds barred vale-tudo event? Because youd be retarded to think that. And that thought it what the TS implies in his OP.

[Kforcer]

Originally Posted by jerzey devil

That's right. The family most known for it's grappling thought the cage would be a better way to contain the figters. The Gracies went with a cage because they knew a ring can cause the fighters to fall out. They chose a cage because ring had already proven to be a hassel for grapplers.

The Gacies, the first family of Jui Jitzu, went with a cage.

Who are we to second guess them?

The Gracies like the cage, therefore the cage is better? The people that founded Pancrase and Shooto apparently liked the ring better...who are we to second-guess them?

[jerzey devil]

Originally Posted by popdevouer

Who here thinks the UFC was the first ever no holds barred vale-tudo event? Because youd be retarded to think that. And that thought it what the TS implies in his OP.

So you're saying I'm retarded? If you read the rest of th thread, you'd see were I sai the Gracies had been fighting in the Vale Tudo ring for years before promoting the UFC.

[StinkyMoe]

Originally Posted by jerzey devil

That's right. The family most known for it's grappling thought the cage would be a better way to contain the figters. The Gracies went with a cage because they knew a ring can cause the fighters to fall out. They chose a cage because ring had already proven to be a hassel for grapplers.

The Gacies, the first family of Jui Jitzu, went with a cage.

Who are we to second guess them?

If I recall correctly, one of the other concerns, and thus reasons for the cage, was the fear of crowd interference. The cage was as much to keep people out as it was to keep fighters in. As well as not having rules for the fighters back in the early UFC days, the crowd itself was far less constrained in where it could go and what it could do.

By the time it was clear that there wasn't really an issue with crowd interference, the octagon had become the most recognizable marketing tool of the UFC, and it would have been simply foolish business to get rid of it.

Perhaps in hindsight it might seem silly to worry about the crowd, but one has to remember that the decision was made (obviously) before the first UFC, so perceptions, guesses and worries are what they had to make their decision on. Obviously they had experience having JJ and NHB-type events in Brazil, but UFC 1 really was something of a first in the US, and I'm sure they had to be at least a little apprehensive.

And just for the record, no I am not saying that it was the only reason for the cage, just that it was one of the major reasons for the cage.

[sdaccount]

I would lean toward the fact that the Gracies used the cage to help promote the UFC in the US. It was more extreme and no-hold-barred as one user mentioned. The original promotions of the UFC advertised brutality and the cage reinforced the "two men enter, one man leave" mantra. I wouldn't think the Gracies used the cage because they studied what was best for the sport and what would help promote the rules etc.

[jerzey devil]

Originally Posted by Kforcer

The Gracies like the cage, therefore the cage is better? The people that founded Pancrase and Shooto apparently liked the ring better...who are we to second-guess them?

I just makes sense to me that a family that made grappling their whole lives would know what the best stage for a fight would be I'm not buying the act that they wanted to appeal to the violent Americans by using a cage.

I didn't know about Jon Millius, but I'm sure Rorian had some input on the cage. Hell, I'm sure even Helio had some suggestions.

[Kanthebarbarian]

Respect to the Gracies for their contributions, but i could careless what they prefer or go for. Does the gracies approval of the cage supposed to convince me the cage is better of course not i dont swing on their nutz that close plz if Fedor told a lot of people he Thinks the Ring is the best thang then a lot of people would be celebrating the damn ring cuz he said something about it. its all preference their is no right or wrong the biggest thing to keep in mind is what aspect of the game the environment plays, usually i like Ring for the stand up wars, but i like the cage when shit hits the floor because it contains the fighters but whatever its all an opinion not a rule.

[Blast D]

i remember Rorian said in an interview once that one of the reason they liked the cage was because you could pin opponents up against and it was a good tool for grappling

[Kforcer]

Originally Posted by jerzey devil

I just makes sense to me that a family that made grappling their whole lives would know what the best stage for a fight would be I'm not buying the act that they wanted to appeal to the violent Americans by using a cage.

I didn't know about Jon Millius, but I'm sure Rorian had some input on the cage. Hell, I'm sure even Helio had some suggestions.

The octagon was Millius's invention. The Gracies have never denied it. Plenty of people have dedicated their lives to grappling aside from the Gracies. Minoru Suzuki, Masakatsu Funaki and Karl Gotch three such individuals. And they decided on what...? A RING. And Sayama, of Shooto, felt the same way. And heck, as pointed out, Carlos, Carlson and Helio all seemed to like the ring just fine as well.

Your appeal to authority argument just doesn't work. If you want to argue for the cage, do so on it's own merits, not on the fact that some of the Gracies happen to prefer a cage.

[Kanthebarbarian]

Originally Posted by I.Jedi

How about this one... The ufc is the org that survived and they use the octagon -get over it!

(not you ts -just whoever complains about the cage)

Theres plenty of other org suriviving with a ring. I get a hint of anti-pride in your post.