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Old 06-20-2007, 08:35 PM   #41 (permalink)

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The stat I want to see is Elbows ending fights due to KO or TKO vs Elbows ending fights due to cuts. I still dont think there will be a strong argument against elbows in the UFC.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:36 PM   #42 (permalink)

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soccer kicks and stomps should be allowed to a opponent on their back. I hate seeing guys just lying there daring someone to just hop in their guard. That is why I loved pride so much you couldn't do that shit with no fear of any thing but legs kicks. Plus you need to be able to knee people when they shoot and not worry a dq
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:36 PM   #43 (permalink)

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Elbows should not be banned.... knees, soccer kicks and stomps should be legalized...
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:38 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NearDark View Post
Your stats are not correct.

Now don't tell anyone, keep this a big secret...but there is MMA outside of the UFC. I know that is shocking and stunning news, but it is true, trust me.

There are guys in King of the Cage who make entire careers off having fights stopped on cuts. The amount of fights stopped on elbow cuts is HUGE in MMA.

Look beyond the UFC, because believe it or not, there is MMA outside of the UFC. Stop worshiping at the feet of Dana White for a second and think outside the Octagon.
And how many events and stoppages due to elbow cuts are these?
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:40 PM   #45 (permalink)

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That was a great post i definatly thought the numbers would be higher. i guess the image of yves edwards is still in my head
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:42 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Ok, first of all, yes, I know there's MMA outside the UFC. But...the UFC is the biggest MMA organization there is in the world that allows elbows to a downed opponent, so, I decided to just go through their events. If you, NearDark, want to go through the rest of the american organizations that allow elbows to a downed opponent's head, I'd love to see the stats...contrary to what some people may think, I don't have all that much free time

On the other hand, this is the list of fights stopped by doctors or cuts, according to fightfinder, from UFC30 to UFC72, UFC Fight Night (UFN) and The Ultimate Fighter finales (TUF) included:

(EDIT: Ok, Archaelleon came up with an answer for some of the reason why some of this fights were stopped, info in the last column).
(EDIT: Ok, Dr. Abysmal came up with another two fights, Tank's and Kongo's)
(EDIT: More info, this time from SolidPunch on 3 fights)

71 Thiago Silva James Irvin TKO (Knee injury)
61 Cheick Kongo Gilbert Aldana TKO (Doctor Stoppage) (cut from elbow while *standing*)
61 Joe Stevenson Yves Edwards TKO (Doctor Stoppage) (cut from elbows)
UFN3 Spencer Fisher Aaron Riley TKO (Doctor Stoppage) (Broken jaw...youch)
TUF2 Melvin Guillard Marcus Davis TKO (Cut)
55 Joe Riggs Chris Lytle TKO (Cut) (from elbows, from the bottom)
UFN2 Jonathan Goulet Jay Hieron TKO (Cut)
UFN2 David Loiseau Evan Tanner TKO (Cuts) (cut from elbows...obviously
UFN1 Kenny Florian Alex Karalexis TKO (Cut) (cut from elbows)
53 Rich Franklin Evan Tanner TKO (Doctor Stoppage) (cuts from punches)
51 David Loiseau Gideon Ray TKO (Doctor Stoppage) (cuts from elbows, obviously
49 Randy Couture Vitor Belfort TKO (Doctor Stoppage) (accidental headbutt)
46 Vitor Belfort Randy Couture TKO (Cut) (glove slide on a punch)
45 Wesley Correira David Abbott TKO (Cut) (From a knee)
43 Pedro Rizzo Tra Telligman TKO (Cut) (Knee to Tra's forehead)
40 Matt Hughes Gil Castillo TKO (Cut) (Accidental headbutt)
39 Sean Sherk Benji Radach TKO (Cut)
36 Evan Tanner Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut)
32 Tito Ortiz Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut) (Elbow from the guard)

Let's see who remember which of those all come from elbows, and which of the "doctor stoppage" are or aren't from cuts.

BTW...first is event name (number is a PPV, UFN is UFC Fight Night, TUF is The Ultimate Fighter finale. Second is the winner's name, third the loser's name, fourth the reason.

EDIT: Having some answers as for cause for some of those cuts and doctor stoppages, the new numbers would be:

11 cuts from elbows to a downed opponent out of 457 fights, 2.407% of fights stopped from cuts caused by elbows on the ground. And there's still 4 fights in which I have no clue what caused the cut, so it may go even lower.

Also, to the poster who said the statistical universe was wrong...I agree, to an extent. The problem is that I'm really not willing to spend 174hr re-watching all those 58 UFC events to get which ones had elbows and which ones didn't....which is also why I only did UFC stats...I know there's other promotions that allow elbows on the ground, but that would need too much time, which I don't have...the original "study" took me about 20 minutes...I actually don't have all that much time for this stuff lol!

Last edited by Vox; 06-22-2007 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Some changes in fight-end reasons
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:44 PM   #47 (permalink)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORCOP View Post
Elbows should not be banned.... knees, soccer kicks and stomps should be legalized...
I dont really care for soccer kicks and stomps. I understand we want to keep the sport as pure as possible, but I personally think those moves are ugly.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:48 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NearDark View Post
Your stats are not correct.

Now don't tell anyone, keep this a big secret...but there is MMA outside of the UFC. I know that is shocking and stunning news, but it is true, trust me.

There are guys in King of the Cage who make entire careers off having fights stopped on cuts. The amount of fights stopped on elbow cuts is HUGE in MMA.

Look beyond the UFC, because believe it or not, there is MMA outside of the UFC. Stop worshiping at the feet of Dana White for a second and think outside the Octagon.
"The Heavyweights: PRIDE and UFC" mean anything to you genius?
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:52 PM   #49 (permalink)
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UFC rules favor former collegiate wrestlers. And wrestlers AERN'T fighters. They are wrestlers who should be in WWE, no REAL combat sports.

When a fighting ruleset favors wrestling over muay thai, you know you've got a problem.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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71 Thiago Silva James Irvin TKO (Knee injury)
61 Cheick Kongo Gilbert Aldana TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
61 Joe Stevenson Yves Edwards TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
UFN3 Spencer Fisher Aaron Riley TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
TUF2 Melvin Guillard Marcus Davis TKO (Cut)
55 Joe Riggs Chris Lytle TKO (Cut)
UFN2 Jonathan Goulet Jay Hieron TKO (Cut)
UFN2 David Loiseau Evan Tanner TKO (Cuts)
UFN1 Kenny Florian Alex Karalexis TKO (Cut)
53 Rich Franklin Evan Tanner TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
51 David Loiseau Gideon Ray TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
49 Randy Couture Vitor Belfort TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
46 Vitor Belfort Randy Couture TKO (Cut)
45 Wesley Correira David Abbott TKO (Cut)
43 Pedro Rizzo Tra Telligman TKO (Cut)
40 Matt Hughes Gil Castillo TKO (Cut)
39 Sean Sherk Benji Radach TKO (Cut)
36 Evan Tanner Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut)
32 Tito Ortiz Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut)



So do any of you MMA historians know which of these fights was ended by a cut from an elbow?
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