Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[ndt/oos]

stats for soccer kciks and stomps? good job

[Couturefan1349]

solid post

[RampageSlam]

Originally Posted by Vox

Ok, let's see if I can save myself from the white-belt's-first-post stigma with this post.

A few days ago, in a blog out there, somebody clamored, as often happens, for elbows to the head of a downed opponent to be thrown out of the rulebook, because they stop too many fights due to cuts.

A couple of weeks ago, in one of sherdog's radio shows (can't remember which one), one of the hosts also mentioned this belief, and then said that he and his co-host didn't have any data to support or deny this belief.

So...finally tired of hearing arguments based on "I think" and "I believe" I decided to go look for the data.

I went through the results in the fightfinder from UFC 30 to UFC72, with all UFN and TUF finales included, and got the following numbers:

Events: 58
Fights: 457
Stoppages marked as "doctor stoppage" or "cuts": 19

So...4.15% of the fights between UFC30 and UFC72 have been stopped by a doctor or by cuts. Out of these 19, one for sure was a leg injury (Irvin's busted knee), one was an arm injury (Tim Silvia v. Mir) and I'm sure there are other non-elbow-hit related injuries that I just don't remember and didn't have the video to check out.

So...let's concede that there's 17 fights stopped from cuts resulting from elbows to the head of a downed opponent. only 3.71% of fights in the last 58 UFC events have been stopped because of cuts done with elbows (remember, this is a supposition, because there's plenty of "doctor stoppage" without a reason in the fightfinder).

In case anybody is curious, I also pulled out other data for the last 15 UFC PPVs, like knockouts and submissions and so on...you can follow the thread <a href="http://ufcmania.com/2007/06/16/ufc-72-recap-franklin-griffin-earn-decisions/">here</a> My posts are under the same nick as here, Vox.

So...3.71% of fights being stopped this way is enough reason for elbows to be outlawed in MMA? Not in my opinion...what about in yours?

I have always felt that elbows are a necessary part of mma. I don't think too many fights are stopped because of them but I do feel like alot of fights have the momentum shifted when someone lands a solid elbow that either cuts or hurts the opposing fighter.

The only fights I can remember that were stopped from damage due to elbows were David Loiseau vs Evan Tanner and Randy Couture vs Vitor Belfort( the original cut was from a head butt but the cut was worsened from elbows.

All in all good post man, you may have a bit too much time on your hands though.

[Hellscream]

Originally Posted by l00maniac420

read what i posted above this post. unless your name is fedor and you can actually deliver blows from a persons guard, i am completely against it... get sidemount for christs sake!

elbows are usually just short glancing blows that dont leave you open to being swept or submitted... BUT these same fighters also never seem to try and better their position because its so easy to control someone and use an OCCASIONAL elbow.

you act like people who use elbows are throwing them in combos like fedor lol... do you also like it when fighters clinch people against the fence but dont deliver any strikes or takedown attempts?

See but the problem isn't elbows then. Some people use them effectively. The problem is with the fighters not using them right and trying to dry hump their oppenent to a "W". The problem is with the refs not standing the fight up or lack of a yellow card system for inactivity. Not elbows. As you said you can do a standing clinch and do nothing. So ban clinches? You can also run around the ring and do nothing to try an outpoint your opponent with a few shots a round a la Kos/Sanchez or AA/Werdum. So why not just ban strikes too? Hell why not just make it a grappling bout and call it ADCC?

Anyone who immediately shouts ban IMO has underlying bias for one reason or another. Either your a diehard Pride fan that hates all things UFC or a fav fighter lost because of elbows.

**EDIT**

You also complained about people not trying to pass guard. My take on that is why try to pass if I can smash you in the face just fine from the position I am already in. If your not properly controling your opponent in gaurd then tough shit. Hopefully they'll implement knees to the ground and a yellow card system which will solve alot of that

[Rematch]

Great stats. The TS really debunks the "elbows only cause cuts" argument.

[Julius Wang Shi]

Elbow should be allowed but it sure makes me mad when the better fighter loses the fight due to a cut.

[koquerelle]

good thread with great points. I never thought for a second that the % were this low.

[numskully]

Vox, great post! Thanks for the stats.

This thread needs to be stickied, permanently.

[belancej]

thats crazy i never wouldve guessed only 17 stopped from cuts from elbows

[NearDark]

Your stats are not correct.

Now don't tell anyone, keep this a big secret...but there is MMA outside of the UFC. I know that is shocking and stunning news, but it is true, trust me.

There are guys in King of the Cage who make entire careers off having fights stopped on cuts. The amount of fights stopped on elbow cuts is HUGE in MMA.

Look beyond the UFC, because believe it or not, there is MMA outside of the UFC. Stop worshiping at the feet of Dana White for a second and think outside the Octagon.