Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[Chinballs]

Originally Posted by eworden78

Care to elaborate on why one of the largest MMA databases in existence is an invalid source?
Especially in regards to this very general assessment.

do you disagree with the TS premise?

Yes i definatly do, the only way to do it right is to watch all the fights.

[Lord Grey]

Originally Posted by Vox

Actually, I've seen cuts from punches that aren't from a punch with "concussive force"...for instance, I just re-watched Diego Sanchez v. Karo Parysian....the cut on Karo's face came from a right hook that didn't even move Karo's head...but it did give him a nice cut.

Same with Vittor v. Randy II...a punch that barely touched Randy's face, the glove's edge cut him.

So...not all cuts from punches are from hard hits either.

You're right. That does happen too, but it's not a strategy on the part of the puncher, if you know what I mean. Like Vitor wasn't trying to cut Randy with his punch; he was trying to land a concussive shot. Too often for my taste, guys in the top position, will rain down these low-risk 2-inch slashing elbows to their opponent's face, knowing full well there's no chance of a KO and knowing full well there's a good chance of causing a cut. Personally, I felt no satisfaction at the way Vitor v. Randy II ended, just like I feel no satisfaction when a fighter who is otherwise fully alert and energetic loses because of a cut from one of those elbows.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Lord Grey

You're right. That does happen too, but it's not a strategy on the part of the puncher, if you know what I mean. Like Vitor wasn't trying to cut Randy with his punch; he was trying to land a concussive shot. Too often for my taste, guys in the top position, will rain down these low-risk 2-inch slashing elbows to their opponent's face, knowing full well there's no chance of a KO and knowing full well there's a good chance of causing a cut. Personally, I felt no satisfaction at the way Vitor v. Randy II ended, just like I feel no satisfaction when a fighter who is otherwise fully alert and energetic loses because of a cut from one of those elbows.

I understand what you mean about stoppages, but....besides the Crow, who else do you see using elbows to try to cut? I mean...Tito, for instance, uses elbows in the ground in every one of his fights, and he's only had one stopped due to cuts (v. Sinosic...and I don't know if it's for a cut from 'bows). Same with Matt Hughes (v. Castillo, don't know how the cut was done either). Randy uses them a lot too, and none of his fights have been stopped for cuts from 'bows.

So...besides Loiseau, who else uses elbows trying to get a cuts stoppage? Looking at the list of cuts stoppages, the only fighter who has more than one stoppage from cuts go his way is Loiseau, everybody else on the list is on the winning side only once.

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Vox

I understand what you mean about stoppages, but....besides the Crow, who else do you see using elbows to try to cut? I mean...Tito, for instance, uses elbows in the ground in every one of his fights, and he's only had one stopped due to cuts (v. Sinosic...and I don't know if it's for a cut from 'bows). Same with Matt Hughes (v. Castillo, don't know how the cut was done either). Randy uses them a lot too, and none of his fights have been stopped for cuts from 'bows.

So...besides Loiseau, who else uses elbows trying to get a cuts stoppage? Looking at the list of cuts stoppages, the only fighter who has more than one stoppage from cuts go his way is Loiseau, everybody else on the list is on the winning side only once.

Florian. Not to disprove your point, I think elbows are fine.

[Lord Grey]

Originally Posted by Vox

I understand what you mean about stoppages, but....besides the Crow, who else do you see using elbows to try to cut? I mean...Tito, for instance, uses elbows in the ground in every one of his fights, and he's only had one stopped due to cuts (v. Sinosic...and I don't know if it's for a cut from 'bows). Same with Matt Hughes (v. Castillo, don't know how the cut was done either). Randy uses them a lot too, and none of his fights have been stopped for cuts from 'bows.

So...besides Loiseau, who else uses elbows trying to get a cuts stoppage? Looking at the list of cuts stoppages, the only fighter who has more than one stoppage from cuts go his way is Loiseau, everybody else on the list is on the winning side only once.

I think lots of fighters use the elbows to try to cut their opponent, even though they're not always or even often successful at it. I've seen it done in the last couple of WEC events, for example. Part of the problem for me is that those low-risk elbows I mentioned allow a top-position fighter to seem more active than he really is, which allows LNP to extend for a greater period of time without being stood up. On the other hand, I'm a bit torn on the issue as banning all elbows to downed opponents would rule out exciting higher-risk elbow strikes like the one Rampage KO'd Liddell with.

[Bluphysted**]

Originally Posted by brocktoon

If you get a cut its your own fault for having pussy skin.

Mmmm... pussy skin...

[NKOSI 101]

Waste of time reading (no offense). Elbows, knees, stomps, soccer kicks, punches, and submissions are part of fighting. They should all be allowed.

[CombatSportNut]

Originally Posted by kaipo13

Elbows should be kept in, but knees, soccer kicks and foot stomps to a downed opponent should also be allowed IMO.

Yeah I say keep elbows to the head of downed opponent and add knees to the head also. I think soccor kicks and stomps don't add much and don't require the skill as much as luck of how opponents are landing on the ground. They seem more pure violence than technique. Elbows and knees to the head of downed opponents would result in fewer times some one can lay and pray and also probably cut down on the amount of times a ref has to stand fighters back up.

[MoxyNoxy]

Originally Posted by NearDark

Your stats are not correct.

Now don't tell anyone, keep this a big secret...but there is MMA outside of the UFC. I know that is shocking and stunning news, but it is true, trust me.

There are guys in King of the Cage who make entire careers off having fights stopped on cuts. The amount of fights stopped on elbow cuts is HUGE in MMA.

Look beyond the UFC, because believe it or not, there is MMA outside of the UFC. Stop worshiping at the feet of Dana White for a second and think outside the Octagon.

I like the "liar, liar, pants on fire" argument that you used there. Got any stats to back up your argument?

[SolidPunch]

43 Pedro Rizzo Tra Telligman TKO (Cut) - It was from a knee, a cut on Tra´s forehead.
40 Matt Hughes Gil Castillo TKO (Cut) - Accidental headbutt.
32 Tito Ortiz Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut) - elbow.