Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[EzFlyer]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

Here is another example. First it was "Way too many fights are stopped with elbow cuts" and when that was disproven now the arugment is, "One is too many!" Well, sometimes takedowns cause freak injuries, see Shogun and see Irvin. Perhaps we should ban takedowns because one freak injury is too many? Get real peeps. Elbows are fine.

zeke, i was never one of the people who said that... i know what you'r esaying, i just am basically saying i prefer pride's rules.. if it's off course from the thread, my bad... i just would really rather not have them in the sport, but include kicks to turtling punks... hehe...

[Vox]

Originally Posted by magicman531

Headbutt? I thought it was from Vitor's glancing punch when his glove nicked Randy's eyeball.

That was the second one, the one that Randy lost

The first one was an accidental headbutt, IIRC, during a punch exchange, I think...it's been way long since the last time I saw that fight, and unfortunately I don't have it recorded nor can find it on youtube or similar.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Lord Grey

No, we shouldn't ban punching too. The thing I don't like about some elbows to downed opponents is that elbows with little to no concussive force can cause a fight-ending cut. Punches with little to no concussive force do not cause fight-ending cuts.

Elbows that are used with concussive force, like the one Rampage used to KO Liddell, are great, IMO.

Actually, I've seen cuts from punches that aren't from a punch with "concussive force"...for instance, I just re-watched Diego Sanchez v. Karo Parysian....the cut on Karo's face came from a right hook that didn't even move Karo's head...but it did give him a nice cut.

Same with Vittor v. Randy II...a punch that barely touched Randy's face, the glove's edge cut him.

So...not all cuts from punches are from hard hits either.

[jeff corwin3000]

I love elbows and I have always hated how people say all they do is cut. If you have ever been elbowed you know that it is MUCH more than just a strike that can create a bloody wound.

[Train20]

this was a great post man

[funkelunk]

I've never had a problem with elbows on the ground. Great post.

[Chick]

Public acceptance is part of it, but fighter saftey is 1st and foremost. Stomping on someones head sooner or later is going to permanantly damage or kill a person. Knees should be allowed , but head stomps no way.Imagine a 255 lbs person head stomps you after he stuns you with a punch? If the ref immediatly stops it ( early stoppage) if the refs lets it go the ref sucks or the fighter may be seriously injured. If I had the option as fighter whether to fight with HEad stomps or not I personally would say no

[eastcoastMMAfan]

Originally Posted by Vox

Ok, let's see if I can save myself from the white-belt's-first-post stigma with this post.

A few days ago, in a blog out there, somebody clamored, as often happens, for elbows to the head of a downed opponent to be thrown out of the rulebook, because they stop too many fights due to cuts.

A couple of weeks ago, in one of sherdog's radio shows (can't remember which one), one of the hosts also mentioned this belief, and then said that he and his co-host didn't have any data to support or deny this belief.

So...finally tired of hearing arguments based on "I think" and "I believe" I decided to go look for the data.

I went through the results in the fightfinder from UFC 30 to UFC72, with all UFN and TUF finales included, and got the following numbers:

Events: 58
Fights: 457
Stoppages marked as "doctor stoppage" or "cuts": 19

So...4.15% of the fights between UFC30 and UFC72 have been stopped by a doctor or by cuts. Out of these 19, one for sure was a leg injury (Irvin's busted knee), one was an arm injury (Tim Silvia v. Mir) and I'm sure there are other non-elbow-hit related injuries that I just don't remember and didn't have the video to check out.

So...let's concede that there's 17 fights stopped from cuts resulting from elbows to the head of a downed opponent. only 3.71% of fights in the last 58 UFC events have been stopped because of cuts done with elbows (remember, this is a supposition, because there's plenty of "doctor stoppage" without a reason in the fightfinder).

In case anybody is curious, I also pulled out other data for the last 15 UFC PPVs, like knockouts and submissions and so on...you can follow the thread <a href="http://ufcmania.com/2007/06/16/ufc-72-recap-franklin-griffin-earn-decisions/">here</a> My posts are under the same nick as here, Vox.

So...3.71% of fights being stopped this way is enough reason for elbows to be outlawed in MMA? Not in my opinion...what about in yours?

I remember one was for a broken jaw. It was Spencer Fisher against Aaron Riley.

I do agree that there is far more fear of fights being stopped by cuts than is justified.

[facedancer]

After they didn't stop the edwin dewees fight, they can never stop another fight due to a cut ever again.

[eastcoastMMAfan]

Originally Posted by NickNick

There are other cut ending fights that weren't from elbows also. Like that one Marvin Eastman fight.

I think so. I believe that if we were really to go back and look at the fights we would see maybe 12 fights or less stopped due to a cut from elbows.