Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[juggern8]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

Here is another example. First it was "Way too many fights are stopped with elbow cuts" and when that was disproven now the arugment is, "One is too many!" Well, sometimes takedowns cause freak injuries, see Shogun and see Irvin. Perhaps we should ban takedowns because one freak injury is too many? Get real peeps. Elbows are fine.

Zeke, out of curiosity: How do you feel about soccer kicks and stomps?

[Veengrd]

Fights getting stopped by cuts suck, but it's a necessary evil. Cro Cop getting beaten up by GGs elbows made me realize that they're a really important part of the MMA game.

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by juggern8

Zeke, out of curiosity: How do you feel about soccer kicks and stomps?

No problem with them, but the NSAC won't allow them so what can you do?

[galathrax]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

No problem with them, but the NSAC won't allow them so what can you do?

care to respond to my point?

it's not <4%. But I get the feeling this thread will be the start of a massive misconception with the whole issue. Great.

[KORUPT xLOxx]

I think Elbows are just fine but I also think Knees, Stomps, and soccer kicks should be allowed as well.

[eworden78]

Ok I want to challenge this"illegitimate way to end a fight" premise.

What are martial arts?
Hand to hand combat systems(ok also weapons some times but in the context of this thread). What are combat systems devised for?
Self defense.
What is MMA?
A sport devised to allow the usage of multiple forms of martial arts to determine a best combatant.
Now if I'm defending myself from an attacker and split his nose open and blood gushes into his eyes so he is no longer able to harm me, would this not be a successful use of my martial art?

Since MMA is a sport instead of real combat, we need to limit certain techniques to insure the safety of the fighter, and the entertainment of the fans. But if only 3% of the fights end this way and most cuts are easily sewn up, it's not that great of a danger.

So why is it illegitimate?

[Chinballs]

You have based your statistical research on Sherdogs fightfinder. In other words, your research is crap.

Good attempt thou

[juggern8]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

No problem with them, but the NSAC won't allow them so what can you do?

Me too. I like them. As far as elbows go, my stance is "whatever." I can live with or without them. You really can't watch a fight like Gonzaga vs. Crocop and say that elbows are pointless. Gonzaga used elbows to get Crocop dizzy, then blasted him with a kick. I say, "More power to him."

Elbows are a legit attack. It sucks that they cause cuts sometimes, but like you said... sometimes takedowns cause fight-stopping joint damage, we can't outlaw takedowns. It's part of the game.

[eworden78]

Originally Posted by Chinballs

You have based your statistical research on Sherdogs fightfinder. In other words, your research is crap.

Good attempt thou

Care to elaborate on why one of the largest MMA databases in existence is an invalid source?
Especially in regards to this very general assessment.

do you disagree with the TS premise?

[machadojj]

Originally Posted by Zeke's Chaingun

Of course you wouldn't, because the data provided exposed the argument that elbows should be disallowed as a stupid one. Bias'd and thick headed people often choose to consider evidence contrary to their beliefs.



For one, the < 4% was being generous, the actual stoppages listed in that 3.6% had many that were not even stopped by the elbows, but for other reasons. The actual data of elbow stoppages was closer to 2% than 4%. Secondly, the stoppages from cuts from knee strikes, punches, and freak injuries are comparable to elbow cut stoppages. Perhaps we should ban any form of contact between these guys? Or not.

I guess I am the biased one ha? If there is anyone that has been biased on this topic, it has to be you.

Like I said, the analysis should really be on what percentage of stoppages are from elbows. If your claim that they are comparable to other type of strikes or injuries, than maybe elbows are not so bad after all. If they are predominantly the cause of stoppages, they maybe they are indeed bad.