Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[MeByKtfo]

Nice post, but it one thing elbows cause a lot of lacerations that are quit bad, just not bad enough to stop the fight. Especially if its not getting blood in their eyes.

[OmegaPoon]

Originally Posted by GrazZ

yeah same, even if they DO cut thats too bad, deal with it, if you have blood in your eyes and get KO'ed thats just too bad, its a fight....if the doc stops it he is doing you a favour at that point

AGREE, no one bitches when someone's eye swells shut from punches.

[OmegaPoon]

Good job OP

[JohnJRambo]

good statistics... very interesting... thanks a lot

[SpankyTJ]

i think most of us agree that elbows are ok and that we also want knees and soccer kicks to downed oponents

[Iron Hand]

You totally OWNED the dudes that say "elbows is lame, so many cutts bla bla bla"

[galathrax]

Okay, this is getting a bit ridiculous.

These statistics are WRONG. This is a stupid analysis, no offense to OP. It sounds legit, but if you actually think about it for a minute...

The ONLY way elbows ending a fight is relevant (or even possible) is if elbows are in fact utilized in the fight. Quoting this massive # of fights, and then some tiny little percentage is misleading as hell. ONLY FIGHTS WHERE FIGHTERS ACTUALLY USE ELBOWS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

That being said, I still think the % is low enough that it's almost irrelevant. But you should at least be honest about it.

The flipside of this argument is with stomps/soccer kicks... you'll find the same exact thing: where fighters actually utilize these moves, the % of fights actually stopped from them is rather low (but omg, they look so brutal!!! wah wah, go watch figure skating then).

And the difference between stomps/soccer kicks and groin shots, eye gouging, and headbutts is that those moves injure fighters virtually every time they're used, and don't require ANY skill. Everybody complaining that stomps/soccer kicks turn it into a street fight have obviously never actually used stomps/soccer kicks on a live, resisting, TRAINED opponent.

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Originally Posted by machadojj

I hardly think the data regarding the percentage of fights stopped by elbows is relevant.

Of course you wouldn't, because the data provided exposed the argument that elbows should be disallowed as a stupid one. Bias'd and thick headed people often choose to consider evidence contrary to their beliefs.

Originally Posted by machadojj

By the way, I consider 4% a pretty significant percentage. I wouldn't want to see a dumb stoppage to cut in 1 of every 20 fights. That would be one guaranteed disappointment every 2/3 events.

For one, the < 4% was being generous, the actual stoppages listed in that 3.6% had many that were not even stopped by the elbows, but for other reasons. The actual data of elbow stoppages was closer to 2% than 4%. Secondly, the stoppages from cuts from knee strikes, punches, and freak injuries are comparable to elbow cut stoppages. Perhaps we should ban any form of contact between these guys? Or not.

[N O G]

Originally Posted by cpdtpa

I agree with your statistics and I don't buy into the arguement that fight-stopping cuts justify the elimination of elbows. However, in my opinion you have to look at the bigger picture:

1st, elbows cause a larger number of non-fight ending cuts that take a toll on the fighters over a longer period of time. You can argue that they can just as easily get cut from a punch, so I would be curious to know if anyone has any statistics on this.

2nd, and I think more important, do elbows encourage stalling? From a fans perspective, is it more exiting to watch a fighter who stays in someone's guard and throws elbows, or someone who has to raise up and create space to punch, thus giving the guy on the bottom a chance to defend or slap on a submission more easily. Personally, I like seeing fighters raise up and throw bombs and either knock the guy out or get caught in a submission on the way down.

3rd, and possibly the most important, does eliminating elbow water down the sport? In principlal, I think that MMA should have as few rules as possible, while protecting fighters from long-term injuries. In principle, I still believe that the ref and commissions, need to stay out of it and let the fighters use whatever tools they can to win the fight. The more rules, the more it deviates from true hand-to-hand combat.

Although, part of me would really like to see elbows go for the first two reasons, I still think they should just let them fight and use whatever means necessary to win.

i likke number 2

[KnifeEdged]

Originally Posted by kaipo13

Elbows should be kept in, but knees, soccer kicks and foot stomps to a downed opponent should also be allowed IMO.

100% agreed