Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[Vox]

Ok, let's see if I can save myself from the white-belt's-first-post stigma with this post.

A few days ago, in a blog out there, somebody clamored, as often happens, for elbows to the head of a downed opponent to be thrown out of the rulebook, because they stop too many fights due to cuts.

A couple of weeks ago, in one of sherdog's radio shows (can't remember which one), one of the hosts also mentioned this belief, and then said that he and his co-host didn't have any data to support or deny this belief.

So...finally tired of hearing arguments based on "I think" and "I believe" I decided to go look for the data.

I went through the results in the fightfinder from UFC 30 to UFC72, with all UFN and TUF finales included, and got the following numbers:

Events: 58
Fights: 457
Stoppages marked as "doctor stoppage" or "cuts": 19

So...4.15% of the fights between UFC30 and UFC72 have been stopped by a doctor or by cuts. Out of these 19, one for sure was a leg injury (Irvin's busted knee), one was an arm injury (Tim Silvia v. Mir) and I'm sure there are other non-elbow-hit related injuries that I just don't remember and didn't have the video to check out.

So...let's concede that there's 17 fights stopped from cuts resulting from elbows to the head of a downed opponent. only 3.71% of fights in the last 58 UFC events have been stopped because of cuts done with elbows (remember, this is a supposition, because there's plenty of "doctor stoppage" without a reason in the fightfinder).

In case anybody is curious, I also pulled out other data for the last 15 UFC PPVs, like knockouts and submissions and so on...you can follow the thread here My posts are under the same nick as here, Vox.

So...3.71% of fights being stopped this way is enough reason for elbows to be outlawed in MMA? Not in my opinion...what about in yours?

EDIT: Somebody asked for a list of fights and people have started giving out the reason s why some of the fights where stopped, so the numbers changed due to doctor stoppages that came from non-cuts and cuts stoppages that didn't come from elbows at all. Check the list at Elbows to a downed opponent's head, statistics

[Angelina Jolie]

Interesting...you have a lot of time on your hands. Good work though.

Edit: PISSBELT!!

[Gavriel**]

Good job!

I've never had a problem with elbows being legal personally.

[GrazZ]

yeah same, even if they DO cut thats too bad, deal with it, if you have blood in your eyes and get KO'ed thats just too bad, its a fight....if the doc stops it he is doing you a favour at that point

[kaipo13]

Elbows should be kept in, but knees, soccer kicks and foot stomps to a downed opponent should also be allowed IMO.

[The Unabomber]

good post

[Teknical Itch]

Damn nice stats there. I agree I love elbows but bring in Knees or Soccer kicks

[cpdtpa]

I agree with your statistics and I don't buy into the arguement that fight-stopping cuts justify the elimination of elbows. However, in my opinion you have to look at the bigger picture:

1st, elbows cause a larger number of non-fight ending cuts that take a toll on the fighters over a longer period of time. You can argue that they can just as easily get cut from a punch, so I would be curious to know if anyone has any statistics on this.

2nd, and I think more important, do elbows encourage stalling? From a fans perspective, is it more exiting to watch a fighter who stays in someone's guard and throws elbows, or someone who has to raise up and create space to punch, thus giving the guy on the bottom a chance to defend or slap on a submission more easily. Personally, I like seeing fighters raise up and throw bombs and either knock the guy out or get caught in a submission on the way down.

3rd, and possibly the most important, does eliminating elbow water down the sport? In principlal, I think that MMA should have as few rules as possible, while protecting fighters from long-term injuries. In principle, I still believe that the ref and commissions, need to stay out of it and let the fighters use whatever tools they can to win the fight. The more rules, the more it deviates from true hand-to-hand combat.

Although, part of me would really like to see elbows go for the first two reasons, I still think they should just let them fight and use whatever means necessary to win.

[Balfe]

I have no problems with elbows on the ground. Soccer kicks and knees to a downed opponent are bones of contention though. Honestly, I'm happy with the current set of UFC rules.

Nice post, well researched sir.

[vonbrohon]

They need to allow knees/kicks too.