BJJ Nuthuggers / Haters...

TheMMAn · 05-31-2006, 05:03 PM

I cannot believe the debate and controversy concerning BJJ since the Hughes/Gracie fight.

I have seen one thread after another arguing over whether or not Matt used BJJ to beat Gracie. The answer is no - and yes. BJJ supporters are WAYYYY too defensive of thier art because one of their pioneers got mauled by a well rounded champion. All this did was prove exactly what Hughes (and most knowledgeable MMA people) stated before the fight. BJJ ALONE is not enough in today's MMA.

The wrestling contigent have jumped into this fray and are rabidly pointed out that the techniques Matt used were all based in wrestling. Of course he used wrestling (his background), bolstered by BJJ, sambo, judo and other techniques.

All the purists bitching and arguing on this forum - BJJ, wrestling, MT, Judo,etc - please realize that the modern upper-tier MMA fighters today are using hybrid techniques. It should make perfect sense that the good fighters are taking the best of EACH art and applying it to fit their personal strenghts. Hughes is a good example. Short reach, lots of slow-twitch muscle mass, he is much better suited to grappling and submission fighting. He relies on Greco and BJJ to fit his strengths.

BJJ/wrestling/MT etc. nuthuggers are as bad or worse that those hanging on individual fighters nuts. BJJ is a great base for training these days, but so are the other arts. It will make you blind to the fact that a good, well-rounded fighter will beat a single-dimension figher, even if he is the best in the world at that art. Fans who think that BJJ is the be-all, end-all of MMA should watch a few Chuck or Wandy fights. Fans who think that BJJ is just snake oil and mummy dust sold to us by the Gracies and the early UFC's should watch Big Nog and B.J. Penn in action.

I'm willing to get flamed to get this off my chest, so fire away.

Miral · 05-31-2006, 05:07 PM

one of the best posts i have read

however non are blind than those who wont see

mmavision · 05-31-2006, 05:10 PM

I don't think you will get flamed very much. This is a neutral and well though out thread. I wish the people who think this is a chance to promote the "BJJ sucks" theory would grow up. I also wish the people who have spent many years since the first UFC studying BJJ would accept the fact that by itself BJJ is not the answer (in MMA or self-defense).

Ancient Warrior · 05-31-2006, 05:12 PM

If anything, I think most people argue about which art is the most influential of the group.

The only purists nowadays are guys like Royce, Coleman and Randleman. None of which are doing that well.

Wrestler189 · 05-31-2006, 05:12 PM

great post. good points. there are situations where i see a well rounded person losing to a one dimensional fighter, but those are rare.

for example: in a case of lidell, if someone was a top notch BJJ guy with excellent takedowns, he would prob get subbed.

if an agressive BJJ guy with good takedowns fought silva, he would maybe get subbed.

of course these are exceptions and the vast majority of top rated fighters are well rounded, but it is possible to succeed with one art, jsut very rare.

Don'tkillbill · 05-31-2006, 05:17 PM

No flame job here. Good post. Everyone loves their own style and has a great lack of objectivity touting its benefits. The best fighters adapt their talents to a personal style well described in the main post regarding Matt Hughes.

TheGracieHunter · 05-31-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrestler189

great post. good points. there are situations where i see a well rounded person losing to a one dimensional fighter, but those are rare.

for example: in a case of lidell, if someone was a top notch BJJ guy with excellent takedowns, he would prob get subbed.

if an agressive BJJ guy with good takedowns fought silva, he would maybe get subbed.

of course these are exceptions and the vast majority of top rated fighters are well rounded, but it is possible to succeed with one art, jsut very rare.

Ironic that the scenarios you've just given would require the competitor be an expert in TWO diciplines, thus making him two dimensional? (top wrestler and top submission artist).

Besides, there'd be a string of other attributes needed to avoid being KO'd/TKO'd by the likes of Silva or Liddell IE. good chin, heart, stamina, enough standup to survive and get the TD. Hence the initial post.

TheMMAn · 05-31-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrestler189

great post. good points. there are situations where i see a well rounded person losing to a one dimensional fighter, but those are rare.

for example: in a case of lidell, if someone was a top notch BJJ guy with excellent takedowns, he would prob get subbed.

if an agressive BJJ guy with good takedowns fought silva, he would maybe get subbed.

of course these are exceptions and the vast majority of top rated fighters are well rounded, but it is possible to succeed with one art, jsut very rare.

Thanks.
I agree with your points. I wan't talking in absolutes. But the Chuck example speaks to my point. A below-average BJJ guy could prolly sub chuck IF chuck only knew striking. But he has a pretty good wrestling background to add to that. He built his take-down defense from his wrestling.