BJ Penn?

[Piggles!!]

Originally Posted by sirchadwick1

I don't think he should be higher than GSP. But there is a reason why he is so highly regarded and respected. Read this thread here if you haven't already.

To all newer fans - This is why BJ is so respected

That is one of the most Biased posts there is, penn sucks get over it. He's the p4p king yet he goes up one weight class, gets dominated so badly he disappears for awhile, comes back, beats pulver who hasn't looked great in his past few fights and is a natural featherweight, beats a sherk who doesn't use his wrestling and tries to box with penn when he has trex arms, and beats joe daddy, now he thinks he is the king and thinks GSP earned the right to fight him by beating fitch? pffttt

He's a cabbage patch kid, nothing more

[LazyFatass]

My understanding about P4P is that it is who is the best fighter at their weight class, not who has fought against heavier or lighter opponents. Someone is ranking in P4P based not only on their own skills, but on their opponents and their fights. Someone can be 30-0, but if those fights end all by lame decision, they probably won't be at the top of P4P rankings.

Not just how someone fights their competition, but also their competition themselves. If someone builds up a huge record beating weak or unskilled opponents, it's not going to rank them at the top. That's why the rankings are always filled with guys like GSP, Penn, Fedor, and Anderson Silva. For the most part, they've all faced the toughest competitors in their divisions (everyone has a few they haven't faced - Fedor hasn't fought Mir, Arlovski, Barnett, or Couture. Anderson hasn't fought Mousasi, Maia, GSP hasn't fought Alves or Shields, Penn hasn't fought Florian, Aoki, Alvarez, Hansen, Calvancante, etc). But it's hard to say that someone like Lyoto Machida has been completely dominant over his opponents, and that he's faced the toughest people out there, considering he hasn't fought Rampage, Evans, Griffin, W. Silva, Liddell, Jardine, etc.

Anyway, BJ Penn deserves a LOT of respect for his skills. I'm a huge GSP fan, but you have to respect BJ Penn and his abilities and talents, or you just flat out don't know who BJ Penn is.

[SpyderPit]

Originally Posted by Blake900

I hate the P4P discussion.

If you are a Penn-hater, fine. He's kind of a dick and has lost fights due to not training properly, which is a negative, not a positive. BUT, if you don't think Penn is ONE OF the best fighters in the world...you really don't know much about MMA, PERIOD

Nicely said!

[LazyFatass]

Originally Posted by Piggles!!

That is one of the most Biased posts there is, penn sucks get over it. He's the p4p king yet he goes up one weight class, gets dominated so badly he disappears for awhile, comes back, beats pulver who hasn't looked great in his past few fights and is a natural featherweight, beats a sherk who doesn't use his wrestling and tries to box with penn when he has trex arms, and beats joe daddy, now he thinks he is the king and thinks GSP earned the right to fight him by beating fitch? pffttt

He's a cabbage patch kid, nothing more

Dude. BJ Penn may be a jerk with an entitlement complex, but he is one hell of a fighter. He hypes up his fights - he's a smart businessman. He may have "demanded" the fight, but we all know why this fight was put together - to sell tickets and PPVs. There are more "deserving" fighters at each weight class - Penn should be fighting Florian and GSP should be fighting Alves. This is a business move, not a "sport legitimacy" move.

I can't stand Penn, but I at least recognize that he's an incredible fighter.

[QcChopper]

Originally Posted by Piggles!!

That is one of the most Biased posts there is, penn sucks get over it. He's the p4p king yet he goes up one weight class, gets dominated so badly he disappears for awhile, comes back, beats pulver who hasn't looked great in his past few fights and is a natural featherweight, beats a sherk who doesn't use his wrestling and tries to box with penn when he has trex arms, and beats joe daddy, now he thinks he is the king and thinks GSP earned the right to fight him by beating fitch? pffttt

He's a cabbage patch kid, nothing more

Even though I don't think BJ > GSP and I agree with BJ not beating many top level fighters lately, saying he sucks is delusional. BJ is a great fighter, but does not have a better record than GSP and hasn't faced the same caliber of fighters lately but that doesn't make him bad by any means. And is it his fault Sherk fought the way he did?

[QcChopper]

Originally Posted by LazyFatass

My understanding about P4P is that it is who is the best fighter at their weight class, not who has fought against heavier or lighter opponents. Someone is ranking in P4P based not only on their own skills, but on their opponents and their fights. Someone can be 30-0, but if those fights end all by lame decision, they probably won't be at the top of P4P rankings.

Not just how someone fights their competition, but also their competition themselves. If someone builds up a huge record beating weak or unskilled opponents, it's not going to rank them at the top. That's why the rankings are always filled with guys like GSP, Penn, Fedor, and Anderson Silva. For the most part, they've all faced the toughest competitors in their divisions (everyone has a few they haven't faced - Fedor hasn't fought Mir, Arlovski, Barnett, or Couture. Anderson hasn't fought Mousasi, Maia, GSP hasn't fought Alves or Shields, Penn hasn't fought Florian, Aoki, Alvarez, Hansen, Calvancante, etc). But it's hard to say that someone like Lyoto Machida has been completely dominant over his opponents, and that he's faced the toughest people out there, considering he hasn't fought Rampage, Evans, Griffin, W. Silva, Liddell, Jardine, etc.

Anyway, BJ Penn deserves a LOT of respect for his skills. I'm a huge GSP fan, but you have to respect BJ Penn and his abilities and talents, or you just flat out don't know who BJ Penn is.

QFT

[iceman117]

GSP will expose him on the 31st, BJ is great but not on the same level as GSP and we will see that on the 31st

[Rayzach]

Originally Posted by sturmgeist

Because the dude has fought from lightweight all the way to heavyweight, and has done pretty fucking good in every class. That's the definition of P4P - defeating guys, or at least making a strong showing, much bigger than you through skill and sheer determination. BJ and Fedor are two of the only guys who should even be mentioned in P4P discussion, because nobody else you guys talk about has done a GOD damn thing to deserve it.

P4P fighters =

Sakuraba
Royce
BJ
Fedor


When GSP moves cuts weight down to 155 and beats some ass, then moves up to 185 and does well, then to 205 and over and does respectably, then he's a great P4P fighter. Until then, he's just a great WW, nothing more. Same goes for ALL the guys who get talked about as P4P fighters, until they prove something by fighting guys well out of their natural weight class, with success, they should not be mentioned.

Based on your conditions for GSP to be a best p4p fighter I have to ask when was the last time Fedor moved through different weight classes and how many top 5 HW has he faced in the last 3 years? I love Fedor and I do think he is the best p4p in the world but I guess it comes down to your definition of the term p4p. GSP can't fight at 155 - he's too big.

BJ has won 1 fight at WW years ago and lost the last 2 to GSP and Hughes and he lost to Machida at LHW as well. Bj hasn't fought at HW BTW. A fighter is best p4p IF HE ACTUALLY WINS when he goes to a different weight class, not just put on a good show. ANYONE CAN MOVE UP AND LOOSE.

All these guys are amazing fighters and we are lucky enough to be able to possibly see them fight each other at their prime. Let's see what happens on Jan. 31...

p4p is a subjective term that has no definite guidelines. It's basically an educated guess - a hypothesis but when you apply your criteria to one fighter make sure you apply it to the rest so your argument actually makes sense.

[s0undbwoi]

Originally Posted by Piggles!!

That is one of the most Biased posts there is, penn sucks get over it. He's the p4p king yet he goes up one weight class, gets dominated so badly he disappears for awhile, comes back, beats pulver who hasn't looked great in his past few fights and is a natural featherweight, beats a sherk who doesn't use his wrestling and tries to box with penn when he has trex arms, and beats joe daddy, now he thinks he is the king and thinks GSP earned the right to fight him by beating fitch? pffttt

He's a cabbage patch kid, nothing more

I might not be the biggest Penn fan out there, but to say he sucks proves you are an idiot, uniformed, or both.

Said it before and I'll say it again:

The stupidity on this board continues to amaze me.

[mma machine 24]

Originally Posted by mmacoyot

Can anyone tell me why BJ Penn is considered to be ranked higher than GSP in the p4p rankings? And why Anderson Silva thinks BJ could be the best p4p fighter in the world? Like what would make him think that? Trust me, I know a lot about this sport but I never got that.

If Serra TKO'S you in the first round with a total beat down, you can not be the best pound 4 pound...