[Zero_Sen]

I remember watching this fight when it happened, and getting all caught up in the moment and cheering hard for a big Nog win.

But I rewatched it tonight, and I have to say--Ricco got robbed. Bad.

As in, I remember people saying he got robbed at the time, but for real, Ricco got completely mugged on that decision.

And that it was unanimous is a joke.

To the extent that I think Bisping beating Hammil is probably more justified.

Anyways, I'm still a serious big Nog fan, but this fight is definitely worth another look.

[StrikerKing]

I dunno, its been a long time since I watched it, and if I remember Ricco outwrestled Nog, but other than that did nothing to end the fight or even inflict damage, and in Pride, that counts for more than having dominent position and just trying to LNP

[Hellscream]

Originally Posted by Zero_Sen

I remember watching this fight when it happened, and getting all caught up in the moment and cheering hard for a big Nog win.

But I rewatched it tonight, and I have to say--Ricco got robbed. Bad.

As in, I remember people saying he got robbed at the time, but for real, Ricco got completely mugged on that decision.

And that it was unanimous is a joke.

To the extent that I think Bisping beating Hammil is probably more justified.

Anyways, I'm still a serious big Nog fan, but this fight is definitely worth another look.

That fight will never stop being discussed

I've watched it several times and I still have a hard time believing it was a UD as well. Nog did a great job defending Ricco's GnP and Ricco did a great job defending the sub attempts. Since neither's offense was effctive I personally would have given the nod to Ricco based on Ricco controling the fight.

Some people see it as Nog's sub attempts did more to try to finish the fights though.... meh..

[KING METEOR]

Agree ricco got screwed big time .

[joberd]

Originally Posted by Hellscream

Some people see it as Nog's sub attempts did more to try to finish the fights though.... meh..

That's exactly why Nog won. Shitty GnP that wouldn't kill a fly doesn't negate numerous submission attempts unless they were godawful attempts (although none of them were particularly close to catching Ricco, they were still good).

That fight is a prime example of LnP and I'm glad Ricco didn't get the decision for it. If he had tried AT ALL while on top of Nogueira then he could've won the fight. Of course, doing so probably would've opened him up for submissions/sweeps which is exactly why Ricco hid in guard in the first place

If it were UFC rules Ricco would've won for controlling the fight, but PRIDE values attempting to finish above all else

[Hellscream]

Originally Posted by joberd

That's exactly why Nog won. Shitty GnP that wouldn't kill a fly doesn't negate numerous submission attempts unless they were godawful attempts (although none of them were particularly close to catching Ricco, they were still good).

That fight is a prime example of LnP and I'm glad Ricco didn't get the decision for it. If he had tried AT ALL while on top of Nogueira then he could've won the fight. Of course, doing so probably would've opened him up for submissions/sweeps which is exactly why Ricco hid in guard in the first place

Well see that's just it. Ricco's GnP was nowhere near to finishing Nog but Nog's sub attempts weren't any closer to finishing the fight either. Making an attempt to secure a sub and failing is the same as attempting to GnP your opponent and failing in my opinion. Nog came close to securing 1 sub and Ricco reversed it as if he were rolling in the gym. So since it's a case of innefective GnP vs innefective subs you move on to another factor in the fight.

Once again just my opinion...

[joberd]

Originally Posted by Hellscream

Well see that's just it. Ricco's GnP was nowhere near to finishing Nog but Nog's sub attempts weren't any closer to finishing the fight either. Making an attempt to secure a sub and failing is the same as attempting to GnP your opponent and failing in my opinion.

Yes but a submission attempt is an ATTEMPT to finish. Lying chest-to-chest and throwing punches to the side of the head with so little force they might as well be padded with pillows is NOT an attempt to do anything but annoy/distract the opponent. If he had been posturing up, trying to throw hard bombs, or trying pass guard, it would be a totally different story.

[no_said_date]

It's funny because I see the opposite now, originally I thought Ricco was completely robbed but my opinion has changed since I watched it a couple days ago (I just ordered the DVD). Now that I have a better understanding of PRIDE scoring compared to when I first saw it I can definitely see the judges giving it to Big Nog especially since they do not have TV cameras to aid them. I still think Ricco won the fight even under PRIDE scoring but I can see why the judges may have gone against him and I do not believe it was a fixed decision.

On another note Bas was talking very biased the whole fight, which was probably because Coleman was right next to him. I think the commentary may have really swayed a few people's opinions about the fight. Plus Ricco could have done a lot more to really solidify that win, besides a couple knees I can't remember Ricco doing anything to finish the fight. The judges may have had a difficult time seeing what damage Ricco was actually doing on the ground and they may have had a difficult time determining who was controlling the ground battle (top is not dominate in PRIDE). Nog's suubmission attempts may have looked closer to the judges, and he was at least trying to finish the fight. If they thought Ricco was doing very little on the ground then the first two rounds could have almost been nulified and Nog's best attempts to finish came in the third. I think Ricco won but there has been many more decisions that were worse.

[lou thesz press]

nog won fairly squarely. sure ricco took him down, but didn't do much else. nog was always working and looked perfectly fine after the match.

[MMAth Major]

Originally Posted by joberd

Yes but a submission attempt is an ATTEMPT to finish. Lying chest-to-chest and throwing punches to the side of the head with so little force they might as well be padded with pillows is NOT an attempt to do anything but annoy/distract the opponent. If he had been posturing up, trying to throw hard bombs, or trying pass guard, it would be a totally different story.

So then....would you agree that Cro Cop beat Fedor? Cro Cop threw TWO LHK's, which is much closer then anything Fedor did to end the fight, so he wins on the criteria, right?

I just find it funny that people can be happy where people can be happy when a guy gets a UD after he was outstruck, outgrappled, and controlled for the entire fight and was never in any danger.

Another example: Would you give the Sherk-Hermes decision to Hermes because he had that deep guillotine and those two huge knees? How about Lytle over Hughes because he had that guillotine? You get my point.